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What's caused these numbers to trend low, in my uninformed opinion, is that society's idea for what constitutes adequate child care has escalated dramatically i

What's caused these numbers to trend low, in my uninformed opinion, is that society's idea for what constitutes adequate child care has escalated dramatically increasing the cost of having kids while working wages have bought less and less, which has made the risk being taken on by having even one kid increase beyond what most people are comfortable with. An increasing number of people only achieve a level of reasonable financial security by the time they're in their 30s. When getting to that point takes that much time and effort, it's not something one wants to gamble on unless they absolutely have to, and in this circumstance having kids is in effect gambling. The other thing is that also due to depressed wages, a couple becoming parents means that between working their jobs and taking care of their kids, their life as it previously was basically ceases entirely, which is also a hard pill to swallow. Ideally people would have time to both raise their kid and continue being who they used to be without trying to squeeze time out of the margins by e.g. giving up sleep. There’s also other aspects of work-dominated culture like difficulty of meeting people outside of the workplace which also factor in.

neaden 3y ago
I would say it's what consitutes adequate childcare combined with over reliance on parents as caregivers. So emphasis on nuclear family means you don't have grandparents, aunts, and uncles around so much. Paying for childcare is increasingly expensive as well. Even older children tend to be busier now with school and such which means that in a big family the older siblings aren't available to help out with the younger in the way that for instance my mother did as the third oldest of nine when she was a teen.
- jwells89 3y ago
  To add to that, people having kids later and having to move where career prospects are best means that fewer relatives are around to rely on, either because they’re too distant or have passed from old age.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    My partner and I have three parents between us, and none are interested in helping with childcare as grandparents. My partner said that if she had known ahead of time we'd be entirely on our own, we wouldn't have had the two kids we did. We get by with paid childcare instead, because we're here now and there is only one path forward.
HDThoreaun 3y ago
In addition I think the massively expanded amount of entertainment makes people less likely to have kids. Huge number of people used to have kids just because they were bored. There are almost too many reasons technology has lead to less kids to count.
- jwells89 3y ago
  I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing, though. It’s better if couples have kids because they want to instead of doing it because it’s a matter of course by way of boredom or social pressures. There’s probably enough people who do want them to keep up replacement rate if the factors I mentioned were addressed, since not only would it open some couples up to having kids, it would also make it more likely for those who’d otherwise only had one to have multiple.
  - HDThoreaun 3y ago
    Absolute agree that kids who are consciously planned and wanted are much better for society, but demographic collapse is a serious concern. Especially for these east asian countries there are so many factors pushing birth rate down that I think it's going to take a colossal public effort to right the ship so to say. Imo the only long term solution is societal acceptance of parenthood as a job instead of something that is done for free. That would be a huge cultural shift for every society, but from what I understand it will be an even harder pill to swallow in eastern asian cultures. The insane work culture has been the backbone of the growth in these economies so I think it might be hard for them to accept that it isn't sustainable.

neaden 3y ago

I would say it's what consitutes adequate childcare combined with over reliance on parents as caregivers. So emphasis on nuclear family means you don't have grandparents, aunts, and uncles around so much. Paying for childcare is increasingly expensive as well. Even older children tend to be busier now with school and such which means that in a big family the older siblings aren't available to help out with the younger in the way that for instance my mother did as the third oldest of nine when she was a teen.

jwells89 3y ago
To add to that, people having kids later and having to move where career prospects are best means that fewer relatives are around to rely on, either because they’re too distant or have passed from old age.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  My partner and I have three parents between us, and none are interested in helping with childcare as grandparents. My partner said that if she had known ahead of time we'd be entirely on our own, we wouldn't have had the two kids we did. We get by with paid childcare instead, because we're here now and there is only one path forward.

HDThoreaun 3y ago

In addition I think the massively expanded amount of entertainment makes people less likely to have kids. Huge number of people used to have kids just because they were bored. There are almost too many reasons technology has lead to less kids to count.

jwells89 3y ago
I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing, though. It’s better if couples have kids because they want to instead of doing it because it’s a matter of course by way of boredom or social pressures. There’s probably enough people who do want them to keep up replacement rate if the factors I mentioned were addressed, since not only would it open some couples up to having kids, it would also make it more likely for those who’d otherwise only had one to have multiple.
- HDThoreaun 3y ago
  Absolute agree that kids who are consciously planned and wanted are much better for society, but demographic collapse is a serious concern. Especially for these east asian countries there are so many factors pushing birth rate down that I think it's going to take a colossal public effort to right the ship so to say. Imo the only long term solution is societal acceptance of parenthood as a job instead of something that is done for free. That would be a huge cultural shift for every society, but from what I understand it will be an even harder pill to swallow in eastern asian cultures. The insane work culture has been the backbone of the growth in these economies so I think it might be hard for them to accept that it isn't sustainable.