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I don't know why iFixit doesn't even touch on that point. I live in Barcelona and phones are being pickpocketed every day here. Not being able to wipe or unloc

I don't know why iFixit doesn't even touch on that point. I live in Barcelona and phones are being pickpocketed every day here. Not being able to wipe or unlock or else is a mayor deterrent for the pickpockets, because noone will take the phone off of them, so it's not worth it. Phones are still being stolen but imagine if they could sell to a global market of repair shops. You couldn't go to any tourist location without having your phone stolen if it wasn't bolted to your person. I get the iFixit point as well but if I have a 1500€ phone, I don't want to think about it being stolen, when I am on vacation, because someone needs some parts (oh the human trafficing/organ harvesting similarity...) Apple should offer a better repair program and offer the ability to "unlock and relock" it in a apple store with proper proof of ownership. Or anything else in that direction.

flanked-evergl 3y ago
> I get the iFixit point as well but if I have a 1500€ phone, I don't want to think about it being stolen, when I am on vacation, because someone needs some parts (oh the human trafficing/organ harvesting similarity...) Do you think thieves are that descending? I know someone whos iPhone 14 was stolen in London. If this helped protect against theft, then why did they steal the phone anyway?
- zaroth 3y ago
  Of course thieves are discerning. They are running a profitable criminal enterprise. They are in it for big money and are extremely sophisticated and not going to risk stealing worthless junk. An example of one theft is not evidence that the policy doesn’t reduce theft, or that the purpose of the policy isn’t to reduce theft.
  - flanked-evergl 3y ago
    > Of course thieves are discerning. They are running a profitable criminal enterprise. I can promise you the person who stole this iPhone doesn't run a profitable criminal enterprise. But I am also not disputing that someone along the theft value chain, someone will likely be discerning. However, your claim seems to conflate a criminal enterprise and the theft value chain with an individual thief. Also, I find the notion that it is very risky to steal something in London hard to believe, but if you have some data to back that up I would be happy to change my mind.
- shortcake27 3y ago
  I’m highly dubious of anyone claiming this reduces crime. Things being easy to steal and sell aren’t the _cause_ of crime, they’re a symptom. If someone has felt the need to resort to a life of crime for whatever reason, how is lowering their “salary” (so to speak) going to reduce crime? Surely they now need to steal more phones to make up the difference? I guess you could argue they might commit a different crime instead?
  - riversflow 3y ago
    It’s not that it reduces crime overall, it’s that it reduces a specific, very inconvenient crime to be the victim of. Having your phone stolen, especially on vacation, is significantly worse than many other sorts of theft.
    - flanked-evergl 3y ago
      And yet people still have their iPhone 14s stolen while on holiday.
      - stouset 3y ago
        And people still die of infection despite the existence of antibiotics. Crazy, right? Please tell me you understand that reducing the value of an iPhone on the black market will reduce incidence of theft even if it doesn’t eliminate it entirely.
  - phi0 3y ago
    Few people would choose a life of crime as a hobby, or if it wasn't paying much better than an average entry-level office job, so it's not like someone decides to resort to crime and then later considers the financial aspects. Most get into it because of the quick money. To use a hyperbolic example, if the median profit for stealing a phone would suddenly drop to $10, where their only value are the easily extractable raw materials, a 20-fold increase in theft would be less likely then a rapid drop in theft. Currently there are avenues to remove iCloud lock, where licensed repair shops or Apple employees remove them for some extra cash [1], so the value of stolen iPhones is greater than the raw materials, making it attractive. But with higher regulation, that could change. [1]: https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgmygb/checkm8-info-remove-icloud-activation-lock https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgmygb/checkm8-info-remove-i...
- nemothekid 3y ago
  >If this helped protect against theft, then why did they steal the phone anyway? They are plenty of stories on Reddit and TikTok where the stolen phone ends up in China, and then the owner is phished into disabling iCloud so that the phone could be wiped. If not the sold is phone for parts. To me the very fact that you need an entire phishing ring to make stealing iPhones profitable means that there is some cost that deters thieves from targeting iPhones. Barring phishing, the next best thing is to scrap it for parts. I can see Apple's reasoning here - if most of your growth is going to come from poorer nations it makes sense you don't your customer base worry about carrying a year's salary in their pocket. I'm also unconvinced it's a "money grab" on Apple's part. Locking down repairs will not come anywhere close to replacing the lost revenue from the consumer's slowing upgrade cycle. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/10zg2o7/how_a_typical_iphone_theft_and_phishing_occurs/ https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/10zg2o7/how_a_typica... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/yoataa/ever_since_my_old_iphone_got_stolen_ive_been/ https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/yoataa/ever_since_m... [3] https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/rwlznf/warning_stolen_iphone_phishing_scam_and_digging/ https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/rwlznf/warning_stol... [4] https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/rwlznf/warning_stolen_iphone_phishing_scam_and_digging/ https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/rwlznf/warning_stol...
  - flanked-evergl 3y ago
    How do the thieves get the contact details of the person whose phone they stole to fish them? And why did they steal the iPhone I mentioned without having the contact details of the person?
    - jabroni_salad 3y ago
      In the last link, the user explains in the comments that when they marked the device as stolen, they could choose some text to display on the screen and they chose to include a phone number that they had access to. Plenty of people hope for a good samaritan interaction and will do something like that. also idk if they ever changed it, but a long time ago I found a phone that was locked and no identifying information shown. I asked siri to call 'my' mother and she arranged a pickup.
- _ph_ 3y ago
  Its like poisenous plants. Being poisenous doesn't prevent the single plant from getting eaten. But it makes it very unlikely, that a lot plants of that species get eaten. So while a single iPhone might get stolen, overall there are less if many thieves targetting iPhones. They don't bring money, but increase the risk of landing in prison.
  - flanked-evergl 3y ago
    > So while a single iPhone might get stolen, overall there are less if many thieves targetting iPhones. Do we have data to show this? > They don't bring money, but increase the risk of landing in prison. I also don't think the risk of going to prison for theft in London is that high. Sure, stealing an iPhone increases it, but an increasing an insignificant risk by a factor of 10 could still leave it being insignificant.
    - musictubes 3y ago
      https://www.imore.com/iphone-theft-drops-40-san-francisco-25-new-york-introduction-activation-lock https://www.imore.com/iphone-theft-drops-40-san-francisco-25...
      - flanked-evergl 3y ago
        This article predates the technology being discussed, so it can't be data that shows that this technology is preventing crime.
- elliottkember 3y ago
  There is probably a "trailing indicator" effect at play here. I believe people don't sell the phone immediately, but try and find a buyer later. It will take a few thefts of un-sellable iPhones before the thief realises that the risk is not worth the reward. These changes don't trickle down immediately.
  - flanked-evergl 3y ago
    > It will take a few thefts of un-sellable iPhones before the thief realises that the risk is not worth the reward. But his only bears out if thieves can easily discern an iPhone 14 from other phones, which I'm not sure is that easy in the context they operate. And it also requires it to be risky to seal in London, and I think if that were the case then theft would be less prevalent there. And I think if the people in London cared about having their iPhones stolen, they would take political action to that effect. But sure, it all sounds very plausible, though I would still like to see data to back it up. It may be, but it also may not be.
ilyt 3y ago
If they are being stolen it doesn't work. If the whole part won't be used it will be stripped to components and resold to the same repair shops anyway. Yeah the profit margins will be smaller per phone but they will just steal more. Apple doesn't want phones fixed because Apple wants to sell more phones, plain and simple. There is no other incentive.
- RajT88 3y ago
  > Yeah the profit margins will be smaller per phone but they will just steal more. The risk of getting caught scales with that increased volume. The extra friction of parting out a phone for less money compared to selling the whole phone beggars belief that "stealing more" is the most common response. "iPhone theft getting less profitable raises the rate of theft" just doesn't make sense.
- stouset 3y ago
  > but they will just steal more Yes, classically, thieves just scale up their operations tenfold when their profit per theft goes down. This is why iPhone theft has skyrocketed in the past decade, to the point where the general public is anxious to ever wield such a device in public for fear of being immediately snatched. Oh, wait, that’s not what happened at all.
dTal 3y ago
>I live in Barcelona and phones are being pickpocketed every day here. Not being able to wipe or unlock or else is a mayor deterrent for the pickpockets Doesn't sound like it.

flanked-evergl 3y ago

> I get the iFixit point as well but if I have a 1500€ phone, I don't want to think about it being stolen, when I am on vacation, because someone needs some parts (oh the human trafficing/organ harvesting similarity...) Do you think thieves are that descending? I know someone whos iPhone 14 was stolen in London. If this helped protect against theft, then why did they steal the phone anyway?

zaroth 3y ago
Of course thieves are discerning. They are running a profitable criminal enterprise. They are in it for big money and are extremely sophisticated and not going to risk stealing worthless junk. An example of one theft is not evidence that the policy doesn’t reduce theft, or that the purpose of the policy isn’t to reduce theft.
- flanked-evergl 3y ago
  > Of course thieves are discerning. They are running a profitable criminal enterprise. I can promise you the person who stole this iPhone doesn't run a profitable criminal enterprise. But I am also not disputing that someone along the theft value chain, someone will likely be discerning. However, your claim seems to conflate a criminal enterprise and the theft value chain with an individual thief. Also, I find the notion that it is very risky to steal something in London hard to believe, but if you have some data to back that up I would be happy to change my mind.
shortcake27 3y ago
I’m highly dubious of anyone claiming this reduces crime. Things being easy to steal and sell aren’t the _cause_ of crime, they’re a symptom. If someone has felt the need to resort to a life of crime for whatever reason, how is lowering their “salary” (so to speak) going to reduce crime? Surely they now need to steal more phones to make up the difference? I guess you could argue they might commit a different crime instead?
- riversflow 3y ago
  It’s not that it reduces crime overall, it’s that it reduces a specific, very inconvenient crime to be the victim of. Having your phone stolen, especially on vacation, is significantly worse than many other sorts of theft.
  - flanked-evergl 3y ago
    And yet people still have their iPhone 14s stolen while on holiday.
    - stouset 3y ago
      And people still die of infection despite the existence of antibiotics. Crazy, right? Please tell me you understand that reducing the value of an iPhone on the black market will reduce incidence of theft even if it doesn’t eliminate it entirely.
- phi0 3y ago
  Few people would choose a life of crime as a hobby, or if it wasn't paying much better than an average entry-level office job, so it's not like someone decides to resort to crime and then later considers the financial aspects. Most get into it because of the quick money. To use a hyperbolic example, if the median profit for stealing a phone would suddenly drop to $10, where their only value are the easily extractable raw materials, a 20-fold increase in theft would be less likely then a rapid drop in theft. Currently there are avenues to remove iCloud lock, where licensed repair shops or Apple employees remove them for some extra cash [1], so the value of stolen iPhones is greater than the raw materials, making it attractive. But with higher regulation, that could change. [1]: https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgmygb/checkm8-info-remove-icloud-activation-lock https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgmygb/checkm8-info-remove-i...
nemothekid 3y ago
>If this helped protect against theft, then why did they steal the phone anyway? They are plenty of stories on Reddit and TikTok where the stolen phone ends up in China, and then the owner is phished into disabling iCloud so that the phone could be wiped. If not the sold is phone for parts. To me the very fact that you need an entire phishing ring to make stealing iPhones profitable means that there is some cost that deters thieves from targeting iPhones. Barring phishing, the next best thing is to scrap it for parts. I can see Apple's reasoning here - if most of your growth is going to come from poorer nations it makes sense you don't your customer base worry about carrying a year's salary in their pocket. I'm also unconvinced it's a "money grab" on Apple's part. Locking down repairs will not come anywhere close to replacing the lost revenue from the consumer's slowing upgrade cycle. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/10zg2o7/how_a_typical_iphone_theft_and_phishing_occurs/ https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/10zg2o7/how_a_typica... [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/yoataa/ever_since_my_old_iphone_got_stolen_ive_been/ https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/yoataa/ever_since_m... [3] https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/rwlznf/warning_stolen_iphone_phishing_scam_and_digging/ https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/rwlznf/warning_stol... [4] https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/rwlznf/warning_stolen_iphone_phishing_scam_and_digging/ https://www.reddit.com/r/iphone/comments/rwlznf/warning_stol...
- flanked-evergl 3y ago
  How do the thieves get the contact details of the person whose phone they stole to fish them? And why did they steal the iPhone I mentioned without having the contact details of the person?
  - jabroni_salad 3y ago
    In the last link, the user explains in the comments that when they marked the device as stolen, they could choose some text to display on the screen and they chose to include a phone number that they had access to. Plenty of people hope for a good samaritan interaction and will do something like that. also idk if they ever changed it, but a long time ago I found a phone that was locked and no identifying information shown. I asked siri to call 'my' mother and she arranged a pickup.
_ph_ 3y ago
Its like poisenous plants. Being poisenous doesn't prevent the single plant from getting eaten. But it makes it very unlikely, that a lot plants of that species get eaten. So while a single iPhone might get stolen, overall there are less if many thieves targetting iPhones. They don't bring money, but increase the risk of landing in prison.
- flanked-evergl 3y ago
  > So while a single iPhone might get stolen, overall there are less if many thieves targetting iPhones. Do we have data to show this? > They don't bring money, but increase the risk of landing in prison. I also don't think the risk of going to prison for theft in London is that high. Sure, stealing an iPhone increases it, but an increasing an insignificant risk by a factor of 10 could still leave it being insignificant.
  - musictubes 3y ago
    https://www.imore.com/iphone-theft-drops-40-san-francisco-25-new-york-introduction-activation-lock https://www.imore.com/iphone-theft-drops-40-san-francisco-25...
    - flanked-evergl 3y ago
      This article predates the technology being discussed, so it can't be data that shows that this technology is preventing crime.
elliottkember 3y ago
There is probably a "trailing indicator" effect at play here. I believe people don't sell the phone immediately, but try and find a buyer later. It will take a few thefts of un-sellable iPhones before the thief realises that the risk is not worth the reward. These changes don't trickle down immediately.
- flanked-evergl 3y ago
  > It will take a few thefts of un-sellable iPhones before the thief realises that the risk is not worth the reward. But his only bears out if thieves can easily discern an iPhone 14 from other phones, which I'm not sure is that easy in the context they operate. And it also requires it to be risky to seal in London, and I think if that were the case then theft would be less prevalent there. And I think if the people in London cared about having their iPhones stolen, they would take political action to that effect. But sure, it all sounds very plausible, though I would still like to see data to back it up. It may be, but it also may not be.

ilyt 3y ago

If they are being stolen it doesn't work. If the whole part won't be used it will be stripped to components and resold to the same repair shops anyway. Yeah the profit margins will be smaller per phone but they will just steal more. Apple doesn't want phones fixed because Apple wants to sell more phones, plain and simple. There is no other incentive.

RajT88 3y ago
> Yeah the profit margins will be smaller per phone but they will just steal more. The risk of getting caught scales with that increased volume. The extra friction of parting out a phone for less money compared to selling the whole phone beggars belief that "stealing more" is the most common response. "iPhone theft getting less profitable raises the rate of theft" just doesn't make sense.
stouset 3y ago
> but they will just steal more Yes, classically, thieves just scale up their operations tenfold when their profit per theft goes down. This is why iPhone theft has skyrocketed in the past decade, to the point where the general public is anxious to ever wield such a device in public for fear of being immediately snatched. Oh, wait, that’s not what happened at all.

dTal 3y ago

>I live in Barcelona and phones are being pickpocketed every day here. Not being able to wipe or unlock or else is a mayor deterrent for the pickpockets Doesn't sound like it.