5 ms·

This really feels like 1650's nautical piracy. Someone outside the reach of the law of the targeted country's merchants, making tons of money by theft and ranso

This really feels like 1650's nautical piracy. Someone outside the reach of the law of the targeted country's merchants, making tons of money by theft and ransom. And like the pirates of old, often supported by the host nation so long as their attacks disrupt the activities of rivals nations' merchants.

willis936 3y ago
Merchants provide a value to society and pirates harm that. The thieves are providing a value to society in this case by damaging casinos, which provide no value to society and only harm citizens.
- kube-system 3y ago
  Casinos provide leisure and entertainment. If what you're actually trying to say is that they are overall a net harm, then I'd point out that imperial mercantilism was also quite harmful to many people. At least MGM hasn't overthrown any countries.
  - mrguyorama 3y ago
    In exactly the same way a heroin dealer provides leisure and entertainment. Selling access to an inherently addictive substance should not be a for profit endeavor. The incentives are inherently biased towards harming people for profit.
    - kube-system 3y ago
      You say this as if "addictive" and "harmful" are boolean concepts. These concepts have a wide spectrum in reality. People die every day from addictions to all kinds of socially acceptable products and services, whether it be the dopamine rush from an unhealthy or dangerous activity, a buzz from their favorite beverage, or the sugar rush from an unhealthy snack.
      - willis936 3y ago
        I encourage you to walk through some casinos and take stock of what you see. The scales of enrichment and addiction are nowhere near the balance of candy and soda.
        kube-system 3y ago
        The most harmful things inside of a casino are the bar, the buffet, and the cigarettes. > I encourage you to walk through some casinos and take stock of what you see. I have spent a lot of time at casinos with family members who love eating, drinking, smoking, and gambling. Know what I've seen? I've seen that gambling is the only one of the four that hasn't killed at least one of my family members.
        kawhah 3y ago
        Lots and lots of gambling addicts die through suicide. Is there some reason this is less attributable to gambling as a cause than lung cancer is to smoking or drunk driving accidents are to alcohol?
        kube-system 3y ago
        Smoking related disease, obesity related disease, and alcohol related disease and deaths are much more common.
- paulddraper 3y ago
  Depends on what the merchant is selling, I reckon.
- dfxm12 3y ago
  More than casinos are being damaged. There's also hotels, restaurants, etc.
readyplayernull 3y ago
Will we see machineguns and hacker hanging cages installed in their buildings?
lainga 3y ago
God damn them all, I was told / we'd abuse the C's for American gold...
- zephyrus76 3y ago
  We'd file no bugs / thread no peers...
nosmokewhereiam 3y ago
Cyber privateering was mentioned like 10-12 years ago. Someone had a blog or similar referring to the 'Morgan doctrine'. Edit: I found it. It looks more professionally edited and lengthy than when I first came across it in 2010(!). Link: https://www.themorgandoctrine.com/2010/11/draft-01-cyber-privateer-code.html?m=1 https://www.themorgandoctrine.com/2010/11/draft-01-cyber-pri... The Cyber Privateer Code (draft 02—updated on 6/28/2013): - Any unauthorized attempt to access your computer or phish your data access privileges constitutes a crime punishable by the looting of the attacker's assets by an authorized cyber privateer. All assets. Within 6 months of the attack. - If it is determined that the attacker is acting under explicit instructions from a larger organization or government, the assets of that organization or government are also forfeit to the extent that an authorized cyber privateer may confiscate them within a six month period of the original motivating attack. All assets. - The individual whose assets were seized by a cyber privateer—or the publicly and legally designated spokesperson for the organization or government whose assets were seized by the cyber privateer—has the "right of parley" with the head of the cyber privateering organization, such meeting to take place online in a two-way video conference, such conference to be publicly recorded by one or both parties and before the disposition of the booty but no later than 10 days from the confiscation. - Innocent victims whose assets are directly and mistakenly confiscated by cyber privateers (and whose funds are not returned within 10-days after the parley) shall be compensated in an amount equal to four times their loss, with interest accruing on the restitution amount at the rate of twelve percent per annum. This does not include victims of the cyber criminals, since they were already victimized. - Notifications and requests for parley must be unambiguously left by the cyber privateer so as to allow the right of parley to be exercised in a timely fashion. *These rules would of course lead to the worlds end in any significant conflict, imo. But it would certainly be fun for a minute.
- tpmx 3y ago
  Many of us foresaw this (and much worse) when we first heard about Bitcoin in 2009-2011. Yes, Bitcoin has its anonymity issues, but cryptocurrencies in general is what typically enables this kind of crime. Example: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-13/caesars-entertainment-paid-millions-in-ransom-in-recent-attack https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-13/caesars-e... https://archive.ph/8BCDb https://archive.ph/8BCDb Caesars Entertainment Inc. paid tens of millions of dollars to hackers who broke into the company’s systems in recent weeks and threatened to release the company’s data, according to two people familiar with the matter. Hacking gangs typically ask to be paid in cryptocurrency if they demand a ransom. I don't want to live in a world with 100% anonymous and untraceable payments.
nico 3y ago
It never stopped, and the US is one of the worst offenders Check out War is a Racket, by US general Smedley Butler Also the Snowden documents and the whole Asange/Wikileaks case
- pphysch 3y ago
  The "World's Policeman" thesis really fell flat. There is an urgent need to have effective international law-enforcement and justice.
  - mcpackieh 3y ago
    > There is an urgent need to have effective international law-enforcement and justice. What makes you think any other organization given such privilege would do any better with it than the US? Even if they started out with good intentions, that kind of power will inevitably corrupt them. Embrace multipolarity. Benevolent, wise and just unipolarity will never happen.
    - pphysch 3y ago
      International doesn't mean unipolar. Effective international institutions are multilateral in nature.
      - mcpackieh 3y ago
        If you have in mind the kind of international courts that already exist, e.g. the ICC,... well they already exist. I took your emphasis on "effective" to imply that you would like international courts to have substantially more power than presently exists. With enough power to truly be effective, that court would become the unipolar power. It would attract the power hungry like moths to a lightbulb.
        pphysch 3y ago
        Washington threatened the ICC with serious consequences if it carried out its mandate. Powerful also does not mean unipolar/dominant. Checks and balances can exist. That's how the US government was initially designed.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

willis936 3y ago

Merchants provide a value to society and pirates harm that. The thieves are providing a value to society in this case by damaging casinos, which provide no value to society and only harm citizens.

kube-system 3y ago
Casinos provide leisure and entertainment. If what you're actually trying to say is that they are overall a net harm, then I'd point out that imperial mercantilism was also quite harmful to many people. At least MGM hasn't overthrown any countries.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  In exactly the same way a heroin dealer provides leisure and entertainment. Selling access to an inherently addictive substance should not be a for profit endeavor. The incentives are inherently biased towards harming people for profit.
  - kube-system 3y ago
    You say this as if "addictive" and "harmful" are boolean concepts. These concepts have a wide spectrum in reality. People die every day from addictions to all kinds of socially acceptable products and services, whether it be the dopamine rush from an unhealthy or dangerous activity, a buzz from their favorite beverage, or the sugar rush from an unhealthy snack.
    - willis936 3y ago
      I encourage you to walk through some casinos and take stock of what you see. The scales of enrichment and addiction are nowhere near the balance of candy and soda.
      - kube-system 3y ago
        The most harmful things inside of a casino are the bar, the buffet, and the cigarettes. > I encourage you to walk through some casinos and take stock of what you see. I have spent a lot of time at casinos with family members who love eating, drinking, smoking, and gambling. Know what I've seen? I've seen that gambling is the only one of the four that hasn't killed at least one of my family members.
        kawhah 3y ago
        Lots and lots of gambling addicts die through suicide. Is there some reason this is less attributable to gambling as a cause than lung cancer is to smoking or drunk driving accidents are to alcohol?
        kube-system 3y ago
        Smoking related disease, obesity related disease, and alcohol related disease and deaths are much more common.
paulddraper 3y ago
Depends on what the merchant is selling, I reckon.
dfxm12 3y ago
More than casinos are being damaged. There's also hotels, restaurants, etc.

readyplayernull 3y ago

Will we see machineguns and hacker hanging cages installed in their buildings?

lainga 3y ago

God damn them all, I was told / we'd abuse the C's for American gold...

zephyrus76 3y ago
We'd file no bugs / thread no peers...

nosmokewhereiam 3y ago

Cyber privateering was mentioned like 10-12 years ago. Someone had a blog or similar referring to the 'Morgan doctrine'. Edit: I found it. It looks more professionally edited and lengthy than when I first came across it in 2010(!). Link: https://www.themorgandoctrine.com/2010/11/draft-01-cyber-privateer-code.html?m=1 https://www.themorgandoctrine.com/2010/11/draft-01-cyber-pri... The Cyber Privateer Code (draft 02—updated on 6/28/2013): - Any unauthorized attempt to access your computer or phish your data access privileges constitutes a crime punishable by the looting of the attacker's assets by an authorized cyber privateer. All assets. Within 6 months of the attack. - If it is determined that the attacker is acting under explicit instructions from a larger organization or government, the assets of that organization or government are also forfeit to the extent that an authorized cyber privateer may confiscate them within a six month period of the original motivating attack. All assets. - The individual whose assets were seized by a cyber privateer—or the publicly and legally designated spokesperson for the organization or government whose assets were seized by the cyber privateer—has the "right of parley" with the head of the cyber privateering organization, such meeting to take place online in a two-way video conference, such conference to be publicly recorded by one or both parties and before the disposition of the booty but no later than 10 days from the confiscation. - Innocent victims whose assets are directly and mistakenly confiscated by cyber privateers (and whose funds are not returned within 10-days after the parley) shall be compensated in an amount equal to four times their loss, with interest accruing on the restitution amount at the rate of twelve percent per annum. This does not include victims of the cyber criminals, since they were already victimized. - Notifications and requests for parley must be unambiguously left by the cyber privateer so as to allow the right of parley to be exercised in a timely fashion. *These rules would of course lead to the worlds end in any significant conflict, imo. But it would certainly be fun for a minute.

tpmx 3y ago
Many of us foresaw this (and much worse) when we first heard about Bitcoin in 2009-2011. Yes, Bitcoin has its anonymity issues, but cryptocurrencies in general is what typically enables this kind of crime. Example: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-13/caesars-entertainment-paid-millions-in-ransom-in-recent-attack https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-13/caesars-e... https://archive.ph/8BCDb https://archive.ph/8BCDb Caesars Entertainment Inc. paid tens of millions of dollars to hackers who broke into the company’s systems in recent weeks and threatened to release the company’s data, according to two people familiar with the matter. Hacking gangs typically ask to be paid in cryptocurrency if they demand a ransom. I don't want to live in a world with 100% anonymous and untraceable payments.

nico 3y ago

It never stopped, and the US is one of the worst offenders Check out War is a Racket, by US general Smedley Butler Also the Snowden documents and the whole Asange/Wikileaks case

pphysch 3y ago
The "World's Policeman" thesis really fell flat. There is an urgent need to have effective international law-enforcement and justice.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  > There is an urgent need to have effective international law-enforcement and justice. What makes you think any other organization given such privilege would do any better with it than the US? Even if they started out with good intentions, that kind of power will inevitably corrupt them. Embrace multipolarity. Benevolent, wise and just unipolarity will never happen.
  - pphysch 3y ago
    International doesn't mean unipolar. Effective international institutions are multilateral in nature.
    - mcpackieh 3y ago
      If you have in mind the kind of international courts that already exist, e.g. the ICC,... well they already exist. I took your emphasis on "effective" to imply that you would like international courts to have substantially more power than presently exists. With enough power to truly be effective, that court would become the unipolar power. It would attract the power hungry like moths to a lightbulb.
      - pphysch 3y ago
        Washington threatened the ICC with serious consequences if it carried out its mandate. Powerful also does not mean unipolar/dominant. Checks and balances can exist. That's how the US government was initially designed.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]