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Stopping someone from physically harming someone else can come with severe -punishment- as a deterrent and is much more serious than sharing -any- type of data

by lrvick 3y ago

Stopping someone from physically harming someone else can come with severe -punishment- as a deterrent and is much more serious than sharing -any- type of data online. Stopping someone from making a digital parody of someone else gets closer to free speech territory and is a lot more complicated. You can make it illegal or try to detect and restrict sharing it in popular apps because it hurts feelings, just like you can outlaw pictures of religious imagery because they hurt feelings, but neither can ever be effectively enforced in an internet that allows open source applications and anonymity. See: piracy. Giving up the right to online anonymity is a non starter as it would make it impossible for journalists and dissidents to communicate freely which is a requirement for democracy to function.

ToucanLoucan 3y ago
> Stopping someone from physically harming someone else can come with severe -punishment- as a deterrent and is much more serious than sharing -any- type of data online. Stopping someone from making a digital parody of someone else gets closer to free speech territory and is a lot more complicated. This statement is hilarious because we cannot even do the former for schoolchildren, let alone the latter. Between casual bullying resulting in fatalities due to the utter disinterest of the administration at play, to school shootings where police cower outside while someone murders children en masse. Apparently being a child now is just grounds to have people make pornography of you, bully you relentlessly, with the distinct possibility you might die in a hail of gunfire one day for literally no reason. No wonder the birth rate has cratered. > You can make it illegal or try to detect and restrict sharing it in popular apps because it hurts feelings CAN and SHOULD. INCREDIBLY illegal. Like registering the creator as a sex offender illegal, because that's what this is. It's a sex crime. > but neither can ever be effectively enforced in an internet that allows open source applications and anonymity. See: piracy. So we just give up?
- lrvick 3y ago
  Unless you have any ideas for a solution, I suggest we focus on education to contextualize what kids will inevitably see online. Kids are going to see over 18 content be it deepfake or hardcore. Censorship approaches do not work.
  - palata 3y ago
    And teach engineers about ethics, too? I feel like it could help, because they are the one making the technology and often getting a ton of money for it.
    - lrvick 3y ago
      I do wish we taught engineering ethics, because I do not feel like the majority of silicon valley surveillance capitalism tech workers have any ethics beyond following antiquated legal requirements. That said, in a global internet any technology that can be created, will be crated, and made free and open for anyone to use. We can never escape this fact, and can only educate people on how to protect themselves as individuals as much as possible. Google, Facebook, and modern surveillance capitalism app culture is -optional-. Smartphones have turned into a net negative that make most people miserable for instance. I for one do not have a smartphone, and am happier for it.
      - palata 3y ago
        > That said, in a global internet any technology that can be created, will be crated, and made free and open for anyone to use. Maybe, but that's not an excuse to do it, like: "I do it because anyway someone else will". Silicon Valley is throwing a lot of money into stuff that "someone else" would do, and it is not clear to me that this someone else would always have that kind of resources.
        lrvick 3y ago
        Saying a bad thing should be legal, or asserting it is not enforceable, is not the same thing as recommending people do it. I think it should be legal to burn flags. I would also never do it or advise anyone to do it. Sometimes a free country requires allowing assholes to exist, and educating each other on how to ignore them.
  - ToucanLoucan 3y ago
    > Unless you have any ideas for a solution I'm glad you asked! Step 1: Anyone who uses any media, be it watercolors or generative AI, to create pornographic content of a minor should go to a LOT of prison and be registered as a sex offender. Step 2: Educate children on these tools, what they may be used for, what they may not be used for, and illustrate vividly the extreme consequences thereof. Step 3: When it inevitably happens anyway, enforce those consequences. The offender needs to go away for a long time, and be subject to rehabilitation programs to re-enter society. They should be treated as any other sex offender would, because that's what they are. Their age does not change their crime. Step 3.5: Support the victim. Make it abundantly clear that anyone possessing this material any further will be subject to less severe certainly, but still severe consequences. It is to be deleted, to the maximum extent possible, from the maximum number of places possible. Step 4: Any platform that permits this content to be distributed upon it should also be subjected to extremely steep fines and if the issue persists, seizure by the appropriate authorities. And frankly this should be expanded to all CAM, regardless of origin. Don't wanna regulate it, or feel you can't enforce this? Then shut down. Nobody asked you to to build a website and if you can't keep CP off your website, then your website doesn't need to exist, full stop. Step 5: At this exact moment, begin changing how these generative tools are constructed. Make sure they only use training materials that are properly licensed and given over by their subjects and creators. If a given AI contains the ability to generate pornographic material, then it's distribution should also, in turn, be regulated as pornography already is. Yes, that will be probably be just as ineffective as it is for regular pornography. No, that is not an excuse to not do it. A tool that can make pornography on demand is indistinguishable from pornography. And yes I am certain all of this will stifle innovation in the AI space. I don't care. Frankly if this kills it off entirely I think that's an unmitigated win.

by lrvick 3y ago

ToucanLoucan 3y ago

> Stopping someone from physically harming someone else can come with severe -punishment- as a deterrent and is much more serious than sharing -any- type of data online. Stopping someone from making a digital parody of someone else gets closer to free speech territory and is a lot more complicated. This statement is hilarious because we cannot even do the former for schoolchildren, let alone the latter. Between casual bullying resulting in fatalities due to the utter disinterest of the administration at play, to school shootings where police cower outside while someone murders children en masse. Apparently being a child now is just grounds to have people make pornography of you, bully you relentlessly, with the distinct possibility you might die in a hail of gunfire one day for literally no reason. No wonder the birth rate has cratered. > You can make it illegal or try to detect and restrict sharing it in popular apps because it hurts feelings CAN and SHOULD. INCREDIBLY illegal. Like registering the creator as a sex offender illegal, because that's what this is. It's a sex crime. > but neither can ever be effectively enforced in an internet that allows open source applications and anonymity. See: piracy. So we just give up?

lrvick 3y ago
Unless you have any ideas for a solution, I suggest we focus on education to contextualize what kids will inevitably see online. Kids are going to see over 18 content be it deepfake or hardcore. Censorship approaches do not work.
- palata 3y ago
  And teach engineers about ethics, too? I feel like it could help, because they are the one making the technology and often getting a ton of money for it.
  - lrvick 3y ago
    I do wish we taught engineering ethics, because I do not feel like the majority of silicon valley surveillance capitalism tech workers have any ethics beyond following antiquated legal requirements. That said, in a global internet any technology that can be created, will be crated, and made free and open for anyone to use. We can never escape this fact, and can only educate people on how to protect themselves as individuals as much as possible. Google, Facebook, and modern surveillance capitalism app culture is -optional-. Smartphones have turned into a net negative that make most people miserable for instance. I for one do not have a smartphone, and am happier for it.
    - palata 3y ago
      > That said, in a global internet any technology that can be created, will be crated, and made free and open for anyone to use. Maybe, but that's not an excuse to do it, like: "I do it because anyway someone else will". Silicon Valley is throwing a lot of money into stuff that "someone else" would do, and it is not clear to me that this someone else would always have that kind of resources.
      - lrvick 3y ago
        Saying a bad thing should be legal, or asserting it is not enforceable, is not the same thing as recommending people do it. I think it should be legal to burn flags. I would also never do it or advise anyone to do it. Sometimes a free country requires allowing assholes to exist, and educating each other on how to ignore them.
- ToucanLoucan 3y ago
  > Unless you have any ideas for a solution I'm glad you asked! Step 1: Anyone who uses any media, be it watercolors or generative AI, to create pornographic content of a minor should go to a LOT of prison and be registered as a sex offender. Step 2: Educate children on these tools, what they may be used for, what they may not be used for, and illustrate vividly the extreme consequences thereof. Step 3: When it inevitably happens anyway, enforce those consequences. The offender needs to go away for a long time, and be subject to rehabilitation programs to re-enter society. They should be treated as any other sex offender would, because that's what they are. Their age does not change their crime. Step 3.5: Support the victim. Make it abundantly clear that anyone possessing this material any further will be subject to less severe certainly, but still severe consequences. It is to be deleted, to the maximum extent possible, from the maximum number of places possible. Step 4: Any platform that permits this content to be distributed upon it should also be subjected to extremely steep fines and if the issue persists, seizure by the appropriate authorities. And frankly this should be expanded to all CAM, regardless of origin. Don't wanna regulate it, or feel you can't enforce this? Then shut down. Nobody asked you to to build a website and if you can't keep CP off your website, then your website doesn't need to exist, full stop. Step 5: At this exact moment, begin changing how these generative tools are constructed. Make sure they only use training materials that are properly licensed and given over by their subjects and creators. If a given AI contains the ability to generate pornographic material, then it's distribution should also, in turn, be regulated as pornography already is. Yes, that will be probably be just as ineffective as it is for regular pornography. No, that is not an excuse to not do it. A tool that can make pornography on demand is indistinguishable from pornography. And yes I am certain all of this will stifle innovation in the AI space. I don't care. Frankly if this kills it off entirely I think that's an unmitigated win.