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Every car will soon have inward facing cameras. In the 2021 infrastructure bill, by 2026 cars have to include technology that must “passively monitor the perfo

by dmm 3y ago

Every car will soon have inward facing cameras. In the 2021 infrastructure bill, by 2026 cars have to include technology that must “passively monitor the performance of a driver of a motor vehicle to accurately identify whether that driver may be impaired.” The most straightforward way to implement this is with driver-facing cameras: "Sam Abuelsamid, principal mobility analyst for Guidehouse Insights, said the most likely system to prevent drunken driving is infrared cameras that monitor driver behavior." https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-joe-biden-technology-business-health-068ee87392b0cca1444053b854a514dd https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-joe-biden-te...

legitster 3y ago
The guy interviewed about his camera technology was desperately trying to pitch it. But I think this is honestly unlikely - watching driver behavior is probably the worst indicator for drunk driving. You are way better off just using the lane telemetry data.
- dmm 3y ago
  > watching driver behavior is probably the worst indicator for drunk driving. I think surveillance is (mostly) the point. I guess we'll see. I'd be happy to be wrong.
  - legitster 3y ago
    For who? The government doesn't specify what technology is required - and most cat manufacturers would probably avoid expensive IR image detection just for compliance.
- jstarfish 3y ago
  > But I think this is honestly unlikely - watching driver behavior is probably the worst indicator for drunk driving. You are way better off just using the lane telemetry data. Yep. It's the lane drift that would give the cops probable cause to pull you over for DUI in the first place. GPS could attest that you were recently parked at a bar. The most the internal camera might see is an open container.
- dilyevsky 3y ago
  Pretty sure you’re wrong here. There are already gaze tracking systems deployed in cadillacs and other high end cars. It’s probably decently easy to tell if someone is passing out or just not paying attention with a neural net at this point
  - legitster 3y ago
    > high end cars Yes. For premium cars that already have this functionality. But I am pretty sure the Mitsubishi Mirage is not going to add state-of-the-art driver tracking technology to comply with the 2026 law.
justinzollars 3y ago
"infrastructure" China builds infrastructure. The United States is simply Orwellian.
yardie 3y ago
Drifting lanes, sluggish driving, aggressive driving, ignoring or delaying traffic control devices. These are all signs of impaired or distracted driving and none of it requires a camera being pointed at you.
tzs 3y ago
For cars with the various modern assistance features you could probably do driver impairment detection without any interior sensors. Here are some things that might help detect impairment, especially if the car can identify the driver and so compare their performance on this trip with prior trips. • Data from the lane assist system about how much the driver is drifting side to side in their lane. An impaired driver will tend to drift more. • Data from the automatic braking system about how quickly the driver is reacting to obstacles. An impaired driver will tend to come closer to needing the automatic braking system. • For cars that are aware of traffic lights [1], how quickly the driver starts moving again when a red changed to green. Impaired drivers will tend to take longer. • How quickly the driver starts moving after a car in front of them that was stopped starts moving. That most likely would happen at traffic lights, so similar to the previous item, but does not require the car to know about traffic lights. It just needs to know that there is something in the way and when it leaves, which the collision avoidance system or automatic braking system can likely sense. • How much variation there is in speed in areas where the speed limit is not changing. How well the driver adjusts their speed when the speed limit changes. How much the driver is speeding. Impaired people are probably more likely to have large variations in speed, be slow to react to changes in speed limits, and more likely to speed. If we throw in interior behavior too climate control settings might be useful. Some kinds of impairment change subjective impressions of climate, so if a person is setting the heating or cooling to values that are inconsistent with the current weather and their past history in those conditions it could point to impairment. [1] I remember Audi once announced a system that would watch traffic lights to figure out a good speed to try to hit all the greens, but I don't know if that caught on, or if any other car makers found reasons to include traffic light sensors.
- vel0city 3y ago
  Imagine a world where you're considered a drunk driver because you decided you wanted the AC a little cooler and you were a little slower off the line at a stop light than some historical average. Sounds like a wonderful future.
- cge 3y ago
  A problem with those types of indicators is that they can often alternatively indicate an attentive driver handling situations the assistance features don't understand. A driver may seem to be drifting in lanes because the car's sense of the lanes may be wrong, or may not fit what traffic is actually doing. Large variations in speed in areas where the speed limit isn't changing could indicate difficult traffic or road conditions. Slow reactions to green lights could indicate congestion, obstructions or heavy pedestrian traffic (eg, needing to wait for late crossers at each intersection in a busy city). Climate could be an indication of the condition of passengers, especially for people who specifically drive groups because they aren't impaired when the rest of the group is.
throw10920 3y ago
If true, this is horribly dystopic. Why aren't privacy activists up in arms about this?

by dmm 3y ago

legitster 3y ago

The guy interviewed about his camera technology was desperately trying to pitch it. But I think this is honestly unlikely - watching driver behavior is probably the worst indicator for drunk driving. You are way better off just using the lane telemetry data.

dmm 3y ago
> watching driver behavior is probably the worst indicator for drunk driving. I think surveillance is (mostly) the point. I guess we'll see. I'd be happy to be wrong.
- legitster 3y ago
  For who? The government doesn't specify what technology is required - and most cat manufacturers would probably avoid expensive IR image detection just for compliance.
jstarfish 3y ago
> But I think this is honestly unlikely - watching driver behavior is probably the worst indicator for drunk driving. You are way better off just using the lane telemetry data. Yep. It's the lane drift that would give the cops probable cause to pull you over for DUI in the first place. GPS could attest that you were recently parked at a bar. The most the internal camera might see is an open container.
dilyevsky 3y ago
Pretty sure you’re wrong here. There are already gaze tracking systems deployed in cadillacs and other high end cars. It’s probably decently easy to tell if someone is passing out or just not paying attention with a neural net at this point
- legitster 3y ago
  > high end cars Yes. For premium cars that already have this functionality. But I am pretty sure the Mitsubishi Mirage is not going to add state-of-the-art driver tracking technology to comply with the 2026 law.

justinzollars 3y ago

"infrastructure" China builds infrastructure. The United States is simply Orwellian.

yardie 3y ago

Drifting lanes, sluggish driving, aggressive driving, ignoring or delaying traffic control devices. These are all signs of impaired or distracted driving and none of it requires a camera being pointed at you.

tzs 3y ago

For cars with the various modern assistance features you could probably do driver impairment detection without any interior sensors. Here are some things that might help detect impairment, especially if the car can identify the driver and so compare their performance on this trip with prior trips. • Data from the lane assist system about how much the driver is drifting side to side in their lane. An impaired driver will tend to drift more. • Data from the automatic braking system about how quickly the driver is reacting to obstacles. An impaired driver will tend to come closer to needing the automatic braking system. • For cars that are aware of traffic lights [1], how quickly the driver starts moving again when a red changed to green. Impaired drivers will tend to take longer. • How quickly the driver starts moving after a car in front of them that was stopped starts moving. That most likely would happen at traffic lights, so similar to the previous item, but does not require the car to know about traffic lights. It just needs to know that there is something in the way and when it leaves, which the collision avoidance system or automatic braking system can likely sense. • How much variation there is in speed in areas where the speed limit is not changing. How well the driver adjusts their speed when the speed limit changes. How much the driver is speeding. Impaired people are probably more likely to have large variations in speed, be slow to react to changes in speed limits, and more likely to speed. If we throw in interior behavior too climate control settings might be useful. Some kinds of impairment change subjective impressions of climate, so if a person is setting the heating or cooling to values that are inconsistent with the current weather and their past history in those conditions it could point to impairment. [1] I remember Audi once announced a system that would watch traffic lights to figure out a good speed to try to hit all the greens, but I don't know if that caught on, or if any other car makers found reasons to include traffic light sensors.

vel0city 3y ago
Imagine a world where you're considered a drunk driver because you decided you wanted the AC a little cooler and you were a little slower off the line at a stop light than some historical average. Sounds like a wonderful future.
cge 3y ago
A problem with those types of indicators is that they can often alternatively indicate an attentive driver handling situations the assistance features don't understand. A driver may seem to be drifting in lanes because the car's sense of the lanes may be wrong, or may not fit what traffic is actually doing. Large variations in speed in areas where the speed limit isn't changing could indicate difficult traffic or road conditions. Slow reactions to green lights could indicate congestion, obstructions or heavy pedestrian traffic (eg, needing to wait for late crossers at each intersection in a busy city). Climate could be an indication of the condition of passengers, especially for people who specifically drive groups because they aren't impaired when the rest of the group is.

throw10920 3y ago

If true, this is horribly dystopic. Why aren't privacy activists up in arms about this?