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Can you provide any data on California? It may just be the skeptic in me but using Utah, with its large Mormon population and climate, feels like an exception n

by jppope 3y ago

Can you provide any data on California? It may just be the skeptic in me but using Utah, with its large Mormon population and climate, feels like an exception not a rule. I'm aware that New York City has done some good work, but that predates Housing First if I'm not mistaken.

davidw 3y ago
California has a huge homelessness generating machine: the housing market. There's no way that some charities and a few government programs can get people out of homelessness faster than the rising prices can generate people without a place to live.
- shuntress 3y ago
  You know most people move somewhere cheaper when they can't afford to live somewhere, right? This is not about people being priced out of certain markets. This is about the people who are too deep in crisis to handle finding a cheaper place to live.
  - davidw 3y ago
    You're correct that many people do move - that's why California lost a congressional seat. But there are plenty that get 'caught out' - they don't have the cash to move somewhere far away with no friends or family or a job lined up. The statistics are pretty clear that, at a high level, it is about housing prices. That's why California has more homelessness than Detroit despite the latter being mired in poverty. That's why there's more homelessness in Oregon than West Virginia, even if the latter has a raging opioid problem. https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-about https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-...
    - pandaman 3y ago
      If statistics had been as clear as you claim them to be then we'd see enormous concentration of homeless in Aspen, Hamptons, Marta's Vineyard, Beverly Hills etc.
jeffbee 3y ago
After California builds some housing, then we can measure it.
freedomben 3y ago
Salt Lake City does have a high Mormon population, but Mormon's are actually a minority there (by population, not by power aka government office holding). Outside the city there are a lot more of course, but the city itself is a lot more diverse than most people think. I think it's a useful comparison and resource for approaching California's situation.
mitchbob 3y ago
I'm currently reading Jennifer Egan's excellent article in last week's New Yorker magazine about a supportive-housing facility in New York City [1], and its depiction of their Housing First approach is one of the most encouraging things I've ever read about addressing homelessness. Meet people where they are, address their most basic needs, and their lives become much, much better. If it can work in NYC with all its challenges, I think it can work anywhere. [1] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/09/18/a-journey-from-homelessness-to-a-room-of-ones-own https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/09/18/a-journey-from... (archived: https://archive.ph/2023.09.12-175108/https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/09/18/a-journey-from-homelessness-to-a-room-of-ones-own https://archive.ph/2023.09.12-175108/https://www.newyorker.c... )

by jppope 3y ago

davidw 3y ago

California has a huge homelessness generating machine: the housing market. There's no way that some charities and a few government programs can get people out of homelessness faster than the rising prices can generate people without a place to live.

shuntress 3y ago
You know most people move somewhere cheaper when they can't afford to live somewhere, right? This is not about people being priced out of certain markets. This is about the people who are too deep in crisis to handle finding a cheaper place to live.
- davidw 3y ago
  You're correct that many people do move - that's why California lost a congressional seat. But there are plenty that get 'caught out' - they don't have the cash to move somewhere far away with no friends or family or a job lined up. The statistics are pretty clear that, at a high level, it is about housing prices. That's why California has more homelessness than Detroit despite the latter being mired in poverty. That's why there's more homelessness in Oregon than West Virginia, even if the latter has a raging opioid problem. https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-about https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/everything-you-think-you-know-...
  - pandaman 3y ago
    If statistics had been as clear as you claim them to be then we'd see enormous concentration of homeless in Aspen, Hamptons, Marta's Vineyard, Beverly Hills etc.

jeffbee 3y ago

After California builds some housing, then we can measure it.

freedomben 3y ago

Salt Lake City does have a high Mormon population, but Mormon's are actually a minority there (by population, not by power aka government office holding). Outside the city there are a lot more of course, but the city itself is a lot more diverse than most people think. I think it's a useful comparison and resource for approaching California's situation.

mitchbob 3y ago

I'm currently reading Jennifer Egan's excellent article in last week's New Yorker magazine about a supportive-housing facility in New York City [1], and its depiction of their Housing First approach is one of the most encouraging things I've ever read about addressing homelessness. Meet people where they are, address their most basic needs, and their lives become much, much better. If it can work in NYC with all its challenges, I think it can work anywhere. [1] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/09/18/a-journey-from-homelessness-to-a-room-of-ones-own https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/09/18/a-journey-from... (archived: https://archive.ph/2023.09.12-175108/https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/09/18/a-journey-from-homelessness-to-a-room-of-ones-own https://archive.ph/2023.09.12-175108/https://www.newyorker.c... )