> Not as strongly. "Women spaces" are much stronger established and men are much more strongly punished for trying to invade them. There aren't many women-only

> Not as strongly. "Women spaces" are much stronger established and men are much more strongly punished for trying to invade them. There aren't many women-only activities that I can imagine a woman trying to bring a husband into. Maybe baby showers are becoming a normal exception, but it is ultimately a one off event. Totally fair. I didn't intend to suggest the effect is as strong on both sides. > There aren't many women-only activities that I can imagine a woman trying to bring a husband into. My experience doesn't totally reflect that one-to-one. I agree that there are more women-only activities that have more or less stayed that way, but I have witnessed (and sometimes experienced) plenty of cases where a woman trots out her man in scenario where he neither must be there nor is likely to actually enjoy what he's taking part in. > They aren't really excuses, they are simple facts. Meetups are a revolving door of different people who only come once or twice. Can't make a deep friendship that way. I don't know if that's a generational issue, but it's a common trend I've seen over the years. Friendships aren't like learning to cook or losing weight; it's not a solitary activity completely in your power. If another person simply isn't seeking that friendship there's nothing I can do. No, they really are excuses. Sure, there are simple facts, including that making friends as an adult can be much more challenging than making friends as a youth, but this framing of reality can easily become a crutch. > Meetups are a revolving door of different people who only come once or twice. Sure, they definitely are revolving doors. There's a lot of truth in what you're saying here. Though I have made both friends and relationships through meetups as well. Maybe I'm lucky, given that I'm a 6 on the decile scale at best. But meetups aren't the only way adults can become friends. Striking up conversations with neighbors and guys at the gym are some of the ways I've made very good friends. Your local bartender can become a friend of sorts, especially if you make their working hours a little more interesting and you are an exceptional customer. > Can't make a deep friendship that way. The likelihood is very low, but not beyond the point of not being worth trying. I used to believe what you're saying, and trust me, I'm sympathetic to seeing things like meetups as futile for long-term friends, but my mind has changed on this over time. > Friendships aren't like learning to cook or losing weight They can't be merely reduced to being like learning to do something solitary, but what you are effectively trying to communicate here simply isn't true, in my experience. Being a good friend is actually a skill, and a person can learn to be a better friend through introspection. Friendship skills need to be built and refined by being with others, but that doesn't mean there aren't ways a person can work on their friendliness by thinking about it. A lot of people, including myself at times, do things that sabotage their ability to make friends, both short-term and long-term. > If another person simply isn't seeking that friendship there's nothing I can do. This is probably true, if the person really isn't interested in more friendship. That said, I actually think most people are interested in friendship, but only the right kind of friendship at that time. If one can add something to another person's life that they aren't getting from other friends, and said person doesn't detract from the other person's life, the chance that they can form a new friendship is actually pretty good. > and note I am a late 20's single male, so I don't have any other relationships "holding me back", per se. No pets, no SO's, no kids. Just a dude living alone in a house trying to reach out. Turns out there's not many hands reciprocating that reach. At least not in my demographic I hear you, bro. Totally have been there, myself. I'm in my min thirties now and, to a certain degree, I may be retroactively applying my current station in life to a situation where not everything applies. Since you said you're "trying to reach out", I'll assume you'd be receptive to some experience from an older brother from another mother. There's a lot that's wrong about the world that puts us in this kind of situation where we can be in our 20s and struggle to make friends, so I'm definitely not saying we are at fault for this. At the same time, our own outward behavior is a determining factor on what kind of opportunities present themselves to us, and we are responsible for that behavior; in retrospect, the primary reason my early to mid 20s were so weird and solitary was because of my attitude. I wasn't doing very simple things that would put myself in situations where I'd have the opportunity to know someone. I would have gone to concerts in my 20s but didn't have the social confidence to find someone who looks receptive, start talking to them, and end up swapping numbers at the end. Even if I did, I probably would have been more interested in talking about myself rather than the other person. Thus, I would have felt like I'd done all the right things, but concluded that nobody is looking for friends, or that I'm just broken. That is, of course, just one example. Back then, I also didn't realize that my need for "the right kind" of friend was also holding me back from having more friends. The problem with not having any friends, besides being lonely, is that you have no new sources of adaptive behavior. One of the ways I learned to be more social is that I became friends with very prosocial people and saw what worked for them. Anyway, I hope I don't come off as condescending. Like I said, I think your perspective is totally valid. We're in a particularly rough time in terms of getting to know people in meatspace. If you're tried everything and have had no luck, it's possible that you could benefit by visiting other localities to find a culture with people who are more likely to vibe with you. I wish I had done that earlier in life. Things ended up working out in my home city (of which I never truly felt I belonged to), but had I realized that I'd get along better with people on the east coast of the US, I probably would have moved there in my early 20s merely for the social aspect.