4 ms·

But it makes the art worse if the money's returned. It's JUST an empty canvas then, not even worth keeping on the wall.

by exitb 3y ago

arghwhat 3y ago
While the idea was slightly amusing, it was always just empty canvases. The artist just also breached contract and committed theft on the side, which is an unjustified crime that does not in any way enhance said blank canvas. The criminal individual was not even punished, he just have to return the stolen goods and still get paid. If the museum had not chosen to display the canvas, I feel it would be fair to require damages on top of the money returned in full, without pay deducted and with interest.
- Brian_K_White 3y ago
  I hope you are not any form of art teacher. The work was legit. The fact that it made some people mad and they don't understand, or at least appreciate it, is not proof that it's the highest form of art, but it is absolutely consistent with it. Violating expectations is very much one (of many) purpose of art, and holding up "contract" doesn't change that. That's just a handy club that happens to be available in this case and you're willing to wield it to club something you don't like. Another legal c word is "context". No one can argue something like this wasn't always a possible interpretation, complete with prior examples. So the court and some sufficient number of the voting population aren't artists and the only thing they see is money and a canvas? That is the least interesting and least valid proof of worth or validity of a piece or work of art ever. Just like all the people who say "It's just splatters, I could do that!". That only makes them common and in possession of a club, not right.
  - arghwhat 3y ago
    > I hope you are not any form of art teacher. The work was legit. Crime is unacceptable and is not to be glorified as art. Especially not this kind of lowly and outright pathetic attempt at crime.
    - Brian_K_White 3y ago
      Zomg crime! They provided money to get an artistic statement about money, which they got, and which the executor/commissioner/agent both accepted delivery of, and displayed. Did they charge any ticket or membership fees to enter the gallery where the accepted work was displayed? Did they return that collected money to the patrons? Crying "crime!" is a weak argument. Jaywalking is a crime.
      - arghwhat 3y ago
        Stealing 100k USD is a very significant crime, and I find it very ridiculous that you'd compare that to jaywalking. The criminal was not ordered to "just make art", but comissioned to make a specific piece requested by the gallery - in the form of a frame filled with said money. As such, this is no different than if you hired a carpenter to build you a house, paid upfront with contractual obligations, but the carpenter then just ran off with the money without doing anything. Or if you hired an individual and gave them access to company accounts for the purpose of doing their job, which they then embezzled and ran away with. The money was loaned for a contractually described use-case with a return date. Walking away with it with no intention to return - and trying to keep it afterwards when sued - is nothing but theft of a significant sum.
        fatfingerd 3y ago
        They provided a similar (and vastly more popular) artwork and it was displayed. Even works that are not supposed to be creative works differ from the original order and courts often don't decide on a full refund if it provided utility. I find it kind of strange that they don't want to keep these talking points but I think the court should have decided what value they already got out of using them if they don't permanently accept them.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        arghwhat 3y ago

But it makes the art worse if the money's returned. It's JUST an empty canvas then, not even worth keeping on the wall.

by exitb 3y ago

But it makes the art worse if the money's returned. It's JUST an empty canvas then, not even worth keeping on the wall.

While the idea was slightly amusing, it was always just empty canvases. The artist just also breached contract and committed theft on the side, which is an unjustified crime that does not in any way enhance said blank canvas. The criminal individual was not even punished, he just have to return the stolen goods and still get paid. If the museum had not chosen to display the canvas, I feel it would be fair to require damages on top of the money returned in full, without pay deducted and with interest.

Brian_K_White 3y ago
I hope you are not any form of art teacher. The work was legit. The fact that it made some people mad and they don't understand, or at least appreciate it, is not proof that it's the highest form of art, but it is absolutely consistent with it. Violating expectations is very much one (of many) purpose of art, and holding up "contract" doesn't change that. That's just a handy club that happens to be available in this case and you're willing to wield it to club something you don't like. Another legal c word is "context". No one can argue something like this wasn't always a possible interpretation, complete with prior examples. So the court and some sufficient number of the voting population aren't artists and the only thing they see is money and a canvas? That is the least interesting and least valid proof of worth or validity of a piece or work of art ever. Just like all the people who say "It's just splatters, I could do that!". That only makes them common and in possession of a club, not right.
- arghwhat 3y ago
  > I hope you are not any form of art teacher. The work was legit. Crime is unacceptable and is not to be glorified as art. Especially not this kind of lowly and outright pathetic attempt at crime.
  - Brian_K_White 3y ago
    Zomg crime! They provided money to get an artistic statement about money, which they got, and which the executor/commissioner/agent both accepted delivery of, and displayed. Did they charge any ticket or membership fees to enter the gallery where the accepted work was displayed? Did they return that collected money to the patrons? Crying "crime!" is a weak argument. Jaywalking is a crime.
    - arghwhat 3y ago
      Stealing 100k USD is a very significant crime, and I find it very ridiculous that you'd compare that to jaywalking. The criminal was not ordered to "just make art", but comissioned to make a specific piece requested by the gallery - in the form of a frame filled with said money. As such, this is no different than if you hired a carpenter to build you a house, paid upfront with contractual obligations, but the carpenter then just ran off with the money without doing anything. Or if you hired an individual and gave them access to company accounts for the purpose of doing their job, which they then embezzled and ran away with. The money was loaned for a contractually described use-case with a return date. Walking away with it with no intention to return - and trying to keep it afterwards when sued - is nothing but theft of a significant sum.
      - fatfingerd 3y ago
        They provided a similar (and vastly more popular) artwork and it was displayed. Even works that are not supposed to be creative works differ from the original order and courts often don't decide on a full refund if it provided utility. I find it kind of strange that they don't want to keep these talking points but I think the court should have decided what value they already got out of using them if they don't permanently accept them.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        arghwhat 3y ago