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> So the Leavers were right about that in the end. We rejoined the exact same framework we were already a member of and this is a score counted in Leave's colu

> So the Leavers were right about that in the end. We rejoined the exact same framework we were already a member of and this is a score counted in Leave's column? This is wild logic.

archsurface 3y ago
It would be if by choice rather than mandate.
nvm0n2 3y ago
Rejoining the exact same framework would mean rejoining the EU, wouldn't it? Horizon isn't the whole shebang and was never the parts that people had problems with. It's really not hard to understand this, unless you're trying not to!
- bemusedthrow75 3y ago
  This is a weird, lazy, bad-faith mischaracterisation of what I said. Horizon is a framework. We rejoined it. End of argument.
  - nvm0n2 3y ago
    Same back to you! You're totally misrepresenting what this is all about. It's extremely clear what's meant here: the EU is a big thing with problematic parts, and parts that are OK. Horizon is OK and uncontroversial. The UK wanted the useful low risk collaborations without the dangerous lets-unify-Europe-into-a-megastate parts, and that is what is now happening. The Leavers said this could be done, the Remainers said it was all or nothing, the Leavers are being steadily proven correct.
    - bemusedthrow75 3y ago
      > the Leavers are being steadily proven correct. Now this is delusional. The "prime Leaver", Nigel Farage, thinks Brexit has failed and has said so. The press is full of Leavers saying the country is broken right now.
      - nvm0n2 3y ago
        He thinks the government hasn't used its new powers in the way he wanted, which is different to it not having those powers.
        bemusedthrow75 3y ago
        But they absolutely have. The only thing that marks out the current government's version of Brexit as fundamentally different to Farage's version of Brexit is that they have to stay on planet lucid -- e.g. with regard to the Northern Ireland agreement. And he is not the only Brexiteer to say that Brexit has failed to deliver; they are all at it. The thing is it has failed to deliver stuff that they were all too stupid to understand it could not deliver. And many of the worst things happening at the moment are the very predictable consequence of backing out of agreements; the "small boats crisis" for example.

> So the Leavers were right about that in the end. We rejoined the exact same framework we were already a member of and this is a score counted in Leave's column? This is wild logic.

archsurface 3y ago

It would be if by choice rather than mandate.

nvm0n2 3y ago

Rejoining the exact same framework would mean rejoining the EU, wouldn't it? Horizon isn't the whole shebang and was never the parts that people had problems with. It's really not hard to understand this, unless you're trying not to!

bemusedthrow75 3y ago
This is a weird, lazy, bad-faith mischaracterisation of what I said. Horizon is a framework. We rejoined it. End of argument.
- nvm0n2 3y ago
  Same back to you! You're totally misrepresenting what this is all about. It's extremely clear what's meant here: the EU is a big thing with problematic parts, and parts that are OK. Horizon is OK and uncontroversial. The UK wanted the useful low risk collaborations without the dangerous lets-unify-Europe-into-a-megastate parts, and that is what is now happening. The Leavers said this could be done, the Remainers said it was all or nothing, the Leavers are being steadily proven correct.
  - bemusedthrow75 3y ago
    > the Leavers are being steadily proven correct. Now this is delusional. The "prime Leaver", Nigel Farage, thinks Brexit has failed and has said so. The press is full of Leavers saying the country is broken right now.
    - nvm0n2 3y ago
      He thinks the government hasn't used its new powers in the way he wanted, which is different to it not having those powers.
      - bemusedthrow75 3y ago
        But they absolutely have. The only thing that marks out the current government's version of Brexit as fundamentally different to Farage's version of Brexit is that they have to stay on planet lucid -- e.g. with regard to the Northern Ireland agreement. And he is not the only Brexiteer to say that Brexit has failed to deliver; they are all at it. The thing is it has failed to deliver stuff that they were all too stupid to understand it could not deliver. And many of the worst things happening at the moment are the very predictable consequence of backing out of agreements; the "small boats crisis" for example.