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I think this is a bad faith argument, conflating legal proceedings with life consequences for bad behavior. We have trials for criminal and civil cases in law c

I think this is a bad faith argument, conflating legal proceedings with life consequences for bad behavior. We have trials for criminal and civil cases in law courts. When your child gets sent home from school for swearing at the teacher, do you ask the school for a fair trial by jury? We have consequences in everyday life all the time which don't require trials, just our own opinions. If I meet someone who seems sleazy (judging from my own opinion based on life experience), I am not going to encourage my daughter to date that person. We don't need trials by jury in our life to make decisions and take actions which have consequences. The truth is, it is generally true in life that where there is smoke there is fire. And with Russell Brand there has been a LOT of smoke for a long time, certainly more than enough smoke to judge that you probably wouldn't trust him with your daughter. And when you have not one but many women, with evidence, along with many pieces of video and audio of Russell Brands previous outrageous behavior (e.g. calling a man to tell him publicly on the radio that he had sex with his granddaughter, telling notorious pedophile Jimmy Saville that he would send him over his female assistant...), then it becomes more and more likely that in this case we just have someone who at worse is a rapist and at best is a total creep and sex pest. I certainly agree, before putting someone in prison they should have a fair trial. But no one is putting Brand in prison, are they?

akolbe 3y ago
The exchange with Jimmy Savile happened on a primetime BBC Radio 2 comedy show. There were no consequences for Brand at the time. You can hardly accuse the media of being consistent in their moral outrage. For the Andrew Sachs "joke" see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Ross#The_Russell_Brand_Show_and_Andrew_Sachs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Ross#The_Russell_Bran... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Russell_Brand_Show_prank_calls_row https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Russell_Brand_Show_prank_c...
- saberience 3y ago
  So are you saying that if someone commits a crime and gets away with it at the time, there should be no consequences if the crime is later revealed or reviewed? That somehow, time makes this all better? There were no consequences for Jimmy Saville too. Why? Because he was a powerful, wealthy man and it's hard for people to go against rich celebrities. Can you imagine being a young woman with no wealth or fame trying to go against Brand at the height of his celebrity? Or being a lowly Production Assistant at the BBC or Channel 4, wanting to complain but knowing nothing will happen or you may lose your job. That there were no consequences back then doesn't mean there shouldn't have been, we have no idea what happened behind the scenes. It's been historically hard for women to speak up against powerful usually rich men.
  - akolbe 3y ago
    We are talking about a joke made in a comedy programme. Making a joke in a comedy programme, even in conversation with someone later revealed to have been a sex offender, is not a crime. In fact, making outrageous jokes and being Russell Brand is what the BBC and Channel 4 paid him for at the time. As for any actual sexual misconduct, that is a matter for the courts to decide; but in my mind there is no question that the BBC and Channel 4 enabled, encouraged and rewarded Brand's behaviour.
    - saberience 3y ago
      I think there is a line between somewhat risque humor and calling a grandfather to tell him you "fucked" his grand-daughter. I've seen plenty of edgy comedy but nothing like that. Or calling someone like Jimmy Saville and insinuating you will send your young, pretty assistant to be molested by him. And yes, before it was 100% known about Jimmy, everyone knew (at least where I was from) that he dodgy as hell. You're acting like Russell just made a few juvenile fart and shit jokes... he didn't. Can you imagine calling your girlfriends father and bragging about your sex with his daughter? We are discussing there being real life consequences (not jail) for being a dick. You don't need a courtroom trial to receive results from actions. If you go around calling everyone a dick-head every day, sooner or later someone will punch you in the face. Russell Brand has a legal right to freedom, so any attempt to take that away can only be done with a fair trial by jury. Russell brand has no "right" to broadcast on Youtube, nor does he have any "right" to perform a gig in a pub, so pubs, websites, etc, can refuse him for any reason they like, that's life.
      - akolbe 3y ago
        Sigh. Please get your facts right. It was Jonathan Ross who said Russell Brand fucked Sachs' granddaughter (which I personally thought was well beyond the pale, as tasteless jokes go). https://www.theguardian.com/media/2008/oct/27/russell-brand-jonathan-ross-andrew-sachs-calls https://www.theguardian.com/media/2008/oct/27/russell-brand-... [Speaking on Andrew Sachs' answerphone] Russell Brand: Hello Andrew Sachs, this is Russell Brand … you are meant to be on my show now mate … I am here with Jonathan Ross. I could still do the interview to your answerphone. Jonathan Ross: Let's do it … Brand: Man … er, Andrew Sachs. Ross: Don't call him Manuel, that's really bad manners. I apologise for Russell - he's an idiot. Brand: I said Andrew Sachs! Look Andrew Sachs I have got respect for you and your lineage and your progeny, never let that be questioned. Ross: Don't hint … Brand: I weren't hinting! Why did that come across as a hint? Ross: Because you know what you did… Brand: That wasn't a hint … Ross: He fucked your granddaughter! [laughter in the studio] Brand: That's his answerphone! Ross: I'm sorry … I apologise Andrew, I apologise, I can't help it, you were talking about it and it was in my head, I apologise. Brand: Jonathan! Ross: I got excited, what can I say, it just came out.
deleted 3y ago
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akolbe 3y ago

The exchange with Jimmy Savile happened on a primetime BBC Radio 2 comedy show. There were no consequences for Brand at the time. You can hardly accuse the media of being consistent in their moral outrage. For the Andrew Sachs "joke" see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Ross#The_Russell_Brand_Show_and_Andrew_Sachs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Ross#The_Russell_Bran... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Russell_Brand_Show_prank_calls_row https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Russell_Brand_Show_prank_c...

saberience 3y ago
So are you saying that if someone commits a crime and gets away with it at the time, there should be no consequences if the crime is later revealed or reviewed? That somehow, time makes this all better? There were no consequences for Jimmy Saville too. Why? Because he was a powerful, wealthy man and it's hard for people to go against rich celebrities. Can you imagine being a young woman with no wealth or fame trying to go against Brand at the height of his celebrity? Or being a lowly Production Assistant at the BBC or Channel 4, wanting to complain but knowing nothing will happen or you may lose your job. That there were no consequences back then doesn't mean there shouldn't have been, we have no idea what happened behind the scenes. It's been historically hard for women to speak up against powerful usually rich men.
- akolbe 3y ago
  We are talking about a joke made in a comedy programme. Making a joke in a comedy programme, even in conversation with someone later revealed to have been a sex offender, is not a crime. In fact, making outrageous jokes and being Russell Brand is what the BBC and Channel 4 paid him for at the time. As for any actual sexual misconduct, that is a matter for the courts to decide; but in my mind there is no question that the BBC and Channel 4 enabled, encouraged and rewarded Brand's behaviour.
  - saberience 3y ago
    I think there is a line between somewhat risque humor and calling a grandfather to tell him you "fucked" his grand-daughter. I've seen plenty of edgy comedy but nothing like that. Or calling someone like Jimmy Saville and insinuating you will send your young, pretty assistant to be molested by him. And yes, before it was 100% known about Jimmy, everyone knew (at least where I was from) that he dodgy as hell. You're acting like Russell just made a few juvenile fart and shit jokes... he didn't. Can you imagine calling your girlfriends father and bragging about your sex with his daughter? We are discussing there being real life consequences (not jail) for being a dick. You don't need a courtroom trial to receive results from actions. If you go around calling everyone a dick-head every day, sooner or later someone will punch you in the face. Russell Brand has a legal right to freedom, so any attempt to take that away can only be done with a fair trial by jury. Russell brand has no "right" to broadcast on Youtube, nor does he have any "right" to perform a gig in a pub, so pubs, websites, etc, can refuse him for any reason they like, that's life.
    - akolbe 3y ago
      Sigh. Please get your facts right. It was Jonathan Ross who said Russell Brand fucked Sachs' granddaughter (which I personally thought was well beyond the pale, as tasteless jokes go). https://www.theguardian.com/media/2008/oct/27/russell-brand-jonathan-ross-andrew-sachs-calls https://www.theguardian.com/media/2008/oct/27/russell-brand-... [Speaking on Andrew Sachs' answerphone] Russell Brand: Hello Andrew Sachs, this is Russell Brand … you are meant to be on my show now mate … I am here with Jonathan Ross. I could still do the interview to your answerphone. Jonathan Ross: Let's do it … Brand: Man … er, Andrew Sachs. Ross: Don't call him Manuel, that's really bad manners. I apologise for Russell - he's an idiot. Brand: I said Andrew Sachs! Look Andrew Sachs I have got respect for you and your lineage and your progeny, never let that be questioned. Ross: Don't hint … Brand: I weren't hinting! Why did that come across as a hint? Ross: Because you know what you did… Brand: That wasn't a hint … Ross: He fucked your granddaughter! [laughter in the studio] Brand: That's his answerphone! Ross: I'm sorry … I apologise Andrew, I apologise, I can't help it, you were talking about it and it was in my head, I apologise. Brand: Jonathan! Ross: I got excited, what can I say, it just came out.

deleted 3y ago

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