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And Switzerland is still out, without any pathway for getting back, negotiations have stalled. This is an absolute disgrace for our country.

bacchus123 3y ago
Well it isn't that we wouldn't want to participate but the EU is connecting our Horizon participation with other topics that have nothing to do with it. So I don't really see us rejoining it anytime soon.
- atemerev 3y ago
  As a small country, Switzerland will not be able to finance its world-class scientific infrastructure independently. It is a catastrophe. International cooperation is crucial in science.
  - bacchus123 3y ago
    Wrong. We paid as much as we got from the program. The collaboration between scientist from across Europe was the more important thing. Sadly science got politicized.
  - Longhanks 3y ago
    Absolutely agree. It is a disgrace how the EU tries to blackmail smaller countries. Imagine if Switzerland prohibited all EU scientists from accessing CERN.
  - sealeck 3y ago
    Switzerland is a pretty rich country, and spends roughly 22bn CHF per year on R&D (about half that of France with around 1/8th of the population). Swiss universities are also a _lot_ better than their continetal European counterparts.
exar0815 3y ago
Switzerland flushed tremendous amounts of goodwill in all of europe, especially eastern europe, with their ridiculous stance on weapons deliveries - or non-allowance of deliveries tangentially related to switzerland. Don't know whether this especially is related, but expect more of that.
- somedude895 3y ago
  It isn't
- atemerev 3y ago
  All weapons reexports should be specifically authorized — this is a general international rule (otherwise e.g. Iran could buy Western weapons through reexport agreements). Switzerland used to have a policy for decades that only direct exports were allowed — that directly follows from our neutrality doctrine. Switzerland has already abandoned lots of its neutrality policies when we (rightfully) joined EU sanctions against Russia, in full. But weapons reexports are the final red line. Otherwise Switzerland will not be able to consider itself a neutral country, which will create a lot of undesirable consequences.
- mytailorisrich 3y ago
  If Switzerland is 'neutral' then it should neither deliver weapons to one side of a war nor take part in sanctions against a party to a conflict which are not enacted by the UN (since Switzerland is a member).
- tebbers 3y ago
  It's not related, I would imagine it would be to do with Switzerland and the EU being at odds over the single market and freedom of movement and the EU using Horizon as a stick to 'persuade' them with: https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2021/05/26/switzerland-pulls-out-of-negotiations-to-redefine-relationship-with-eu-over-free-movement- https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2021/05/26/switzerland-pu...
- sealeck 3y ago
  Sure, but Switzerland has probably more scientific output than all of Eastern Europe.

bacchus123 3y ago

Well it isn't that we wouldn't want to participate but the EU is connecting our Horizon participation with other topics that have nothing to do with it. So I don't really see us rejoining it anytime soon.

atemerev 3y ago
As a small country, Switzerland will not be able to finance its world-class scientific infrastructure independently. It is a catastrophe. International cooperation is crucial in science.
- bacchus123 3y ago
  Wrong. We paid as much as we got from the program. The collaboration between scientist from across Europe was the more important thing. Sadly science got politicized.
- Longhanks 3y ago
  Absolutely agree. It is a disgrace how the EU tries to blackmail smaller countries. Imagine if Switzerland prohibited all EU scientists from accessing CERN.
- sealeck 3y ago
  Switzerland is a pretty rich country, and spends roughly 22bn CHF per year on R&D (about half that of France with around 1/8th of the population). Swiss universities are also a _lot_ better than their continetal European counterparts.

exar0815 3y ago

Switzerland flushed tremendous amounts of goodwill in all of europe, especially eastern europe, with their ridiculous stance on weapons deliveries - or non-allowance of deliveries tangentially related to switzerland. Don't know whether this especially is related, but expect more of that.

somedude895 3y ago
It isn't
atemerev 3y ago
All weapons reexports should be specifically authorized — this is a general international rule (otherwise e.g. Iran could buy Western weapons through reexport agreements). Switzerland used to have a policy for decades that only direct exports were allowed — that directly follows from our neutrality doctrine. Switzerland has already abandoned lots of its neutrality policies when we (rightfully) joined EU sanctions against Russia, in full. But weapons reexports are the final red line. Otherwise Switzerland will not be able to consider itself a neutral country, which will create a lot of undesirable consequences.
mytailorisrich 3y ago
If Switzerland is 'neutral' then it should neither deliver weapons to one side of a war nor take part in sanctions against a party to a conflict which are not enacted by the UN (since Switzerland is a member).
tebbers 3y ago
It's not related, I would imagine it would be to do with Switzerland and the EU being at odds over the single market and freedom of movement and the EU using Horizon as a stick to 'persuade' them with: https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2021/05/26/switzerland-pulls-out-of-negotiations-to-redefine-relationship-with-eu-over-free-movement- https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2021/05/26/switzerland-pu...
sealeck 3y ago
Sure, but Switzerland has probably more scientific output than all of Eastern Europe.