5 ms·

> Has anyone moved from a semi-dense area where just about anything was within a 10 minute drive, to a situation where they didn't use a car and still lived a d

by dalke 3y ago

> Has anyone moved from a semi-dense area where just about anything was within a 10 minute drive, to a situation where they didn't use a car and still lived a decent efficient life? I used to live in Sante Fe, New Mexico in the US. The city was founded in 1610. The city core for the first 300 years was of course walkable, but the last grocery store downtown closed around 2000 so it's a mile walk to the nearest store (biking isn't really an option in Santa Fe). When I lived there the population was about 65K. I lived in a post-war suburb about a 30 minute walk from the center of town. When built it was on the outskirts of town, connected to downtown via a gravel road. It's all paved now, and a great place to live with a car as just about everything was a 10 minute drive away (though I would need to pay for parking downtown). The city extends many miles away from the center of town. Going along Cerrillos Road you can see the effect of zoning changes over time. In the center parking is very tight. Further out there are stores with a few parking spots, until you get to the more modern big box stores surrounded by a sea of parking. After I moved away I came back for a month and tried living without a car. I chose the very best rental location I could, about 13 minute walk to the center of town. While I managed, it required a lot of walking to get to the places I wanted to visit, "a tremendous toll on [my] time" as you say". Santa Fe does have a bus service, but running once per hour and only a few routes. I would not have lived without a car long-term. I now live in Trollhättan, Sweden, population 60K. While people have lived here for a long time, it didn't become a city proper until a bit over 100 years ago. Sweden was a pretty poor country and it wasn't until the post-war era that people could afford cars. The modern city core was built before widespread car ownership. The apartment building I live in was built around 1960. It's literally on Main Street ("Storgatan" in Swedish). There are two grocery stores in the city center, plus a few others within a mile radius. Both kids (ages 4 and 6) walk to school, which are 3/4 mile away. The city library, our medical center, the dentist, bank, and more are all within 1/2 mile. That option was not possible in Santa Fe. I had to do a 10 minute drive. Sweden has become a wealthy country and many Swedes have a single family home with one or two cars. Trollhättan has a lot of suburbs which are not as central as where we live. But they do have frequent bus service with a good network. During peak time I think some of the lines run at 10 minute headways. The regular public busses are also used to carry kids to/from school - Sweden doesn't have dedicated school busses. We also have big box stores, about 3 miles from where I live, surrounded by a sea of parking. And I can see how it's drawing stores away from the center of town. But unlike Santa Fe, in Trollhättan I can get on the bus (2 blocks away), get a direct bus to the complex, and be dropped off in the middle of the complex area. And those stores are mostly side-by-side and walkable, not separate islands in the sea. See https://www.google.com/maps/place/Överby/@58.313516,12.2946416,1359m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m15!1m8!3m7!1s0x46453cc87d46bc95:0x57b8e3ec7015bd6e!2s461+70+Överby,+Sweden!3b1!8m2!3d58.318664!4d12.3132199!16s%2Fg%2F11dylbyl3!3m5!1s0x46453cc52550a929:0xf0d457c8a18dec41!8m2!3d58.315006!4d12.302922!16s%2Fg%2F1vb9bnfb?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/place/Överby/@58.313516,12.29464... . We've lived here now for 10 years, without a car, and I think it's a decent efficient life.

coffeedan 3y ago
>>> biking isn't really an option in Santa Fe Genuinely curious, what makes biking not an option in Santa Fe?
- mayormcmatt 3y ago
  Not the person you responded to, but I have random thoughts derive from making a summer visit to a friend in Tucson back in the 90s. We tried riding bikes from Oracle to some place several miles away and my tires got so soft from the pavement heat that it split, the tube burst, and we aborted the trip. Now, this was way back in the 90s when both A) bike tire compounds were probably of much worse quality than today, and B) I was a lazy teen with no grit who didn't even try to change the tire, nor would I have wanted to, because it was hovering around 38C that day and all I wanted was to be in the pool. These days, I love riding my bike everywhere. When I was living in southern Japan for a while, summers there were at least as hot as that summer in Tucson and just about maxed on the humidity. With more age and grit I still rode my bike everywhere, plus took weekend trips through the mountains of the island. I think not everyone has the patience to build up this grit or, in some cases, might have medical conditions that prevent it. Heat stroke is a concern, as is just showing up places drenched in sweat. Also, looking at a bike lane map of Santa Fe, their infrastructure today is not great. All this is to say, I think biking in Santa Fe would be an option, but for many it might not be convenient, safe, or desirable.
- ultrarunner 3y ago
  The American West is generally very sprawled (the big-box stores with a sea of parking as GP puts it above), and because of that speed limits are relatively high (but never high enough to be efficient). Coupled with close to zero protected bike lanes, and often times not even a sidewalk, it's just not reasonable to try your luck against the lifestyl^H^Hwork trucks. Last time I was in Santa Fe I stepped out of my hotel to go for a run, realized that was not exactly what the city designers had in mind, and just headed back in for the treadmill. I've played that game and it's just not worth the hassle, sadly.
- dalke 3y ago
  Sorry for taking so long to reply. I was away on a trip. When I was there there was essentially no dedicated bike paths. You had to ride on the street, with not even a bike lane. It's a bit better now, with a bike path next to the RailRunner line. There is a lot of gravel in town, with places where the gravel gets on the side of the road where people park, as when a dirt road or dirt driveway comes onto the road. In my first few months of living in Santa Fe, I got driving off the road by someone cutting in front of me. Checking now, it's gotten better. I lived around 601 28 W San Mateo Rd, Santa Fe, NM 87505, USA and worked 309 Johnson St, Santa Fe, NM 87501, USA (the apartments have gone condo, and the company I worked for has long since gone bust). Nowdays I would be able to take the rail trail to the Railyard, but then either bike with traffic or on the sidewalk the rest of the way. Or I could bike along some busy streets, like take a bike lane on Galisteo into the center of town. Neither are that appealing. I certainly know people did bike there, but that does not mean I felt comfortable doing so, even after 10 years of often using a bike for errands in Tallahassee, FL, Urbana/Champaign, IL, and Mountain View, CA.

by dalke 3y ago

coffeedan 3y ago

>>> biking isn't really an option in Santa Fe Genuinely curious, what makes biking not an option in Santa Fe?

mayormcmatt 3y ago
Not the person you responded to, but I have random thoughts derive from making a summer visit to a friend in Tucson back in the 90s. We tried riding bikes from Oracle to some place several miles away and my tires got so soft from the pavement heat that it split, the tube burst, and we aborted the trip. Now, this was way back in the 90s when both A) bike tire compounds were probably of much worse quality than today, and B) I was a lazy teen with no grit who didn't even try to change the tire, nor would I have wanted to, because it was hovering around 38C that day and all I wanted was to be in the pool. These days, I love riding my bike everywhere. When I was living in southern Japan for a while, summers there were at least as hot as that summer in Tucson and just about maxed on the humidity. With more age and grit I still rode my bike everywhere, plus took weekend trips through the mountains of the island. I think not everyone has the patience to build up this grit or, in some cases, might have medical conditions that prevent it. Heat stroke is a concern, as is just showing up places drenched in sweat. Also, looking at a bike lane map of Santa Fe, their infrastructure today is not great. All this is to say, I think biking in Santa Fe would be an option, but for many it might not be convenient, safe, or desirable.
ultrarunner 3y ago
The American West is generally very sprawled (the big-box stores with a sea of parking as GP puts it above), and because of that speed limits are relatively high (but never high enough to be efficient). Coupled with close to zero protected bike lanes, and often times not even a sidewalk, it's just not reasonable to try your luck against the lifestyl^H^Hwork trucks. Last time I was in Santa Fe I stepped out of my hotel to go for a run, realized that was not exactly what the city designers had in mind, and just headed back in for the treadmill. I've played that game and it's just not worth the hassle, sadly.
dalke 3y ago
Sorry for taking so long to reply. I was away on a trip. When I was there there was essentially no dedicated bike paths. You had to ride on the street, with not even a bike lane. It's a bit better now, with a bike path next to the RailRunner line. There is a lot of gravel in town, with places where the gravel gets on the side of the road where people park, as when a dirt road or dirt driveway comes onto the road. In my first few months of living in Santa Fe, I got driving off the road by someone cutting in front of me. Checking now, it's gotten better. I lived around 601 28 W San Mateo Rd, Santa Fe, NM 87505, USA and worked 309 Johnson St, Santa Fe, NM 87501, USA (the apartments have gone condo, and the company I worked for has long since gone bust). Nowdays I would be able to take the rail trail to the Railyard, but then either bike with traffic or on the sidewalk the rest of the way. Or I could bike along some busy streets, like take a bike lane on Galisteo into the center of town. Neither are that appealing. I certainly know people did bike there, but that does not mean I felt comfortable doing so, even after 10 years of often using a bike for errands in Tallahassee, FL, Urbana/Champaign, IL, and Mountain View, CA.