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I took a 'mindfulness' course a couple of years back, and the biggest benefit for me was learning to be grateful. It sounds riduclous typing it out but there it

I took a 'mindfulness' course a couple of years back, and the biggest benefit for me was learning to be grateful. It sounds riduclous typing it out but there it is. Practicing gratitude daily, e.g. giving myself reasons to be thankful for my lot in life is 1) really easy to do, and 2) takes about 5 minutes. The rest of it felt like new-age hippy trash, if I'm completely honest.

igor47 3y ago
Ugh this is so dismissive. I'm glad learning gratitude helped you. How would you feel if, instead, I said "your gratitude practice is actually new age hippy trash"? Different people derive benefit from different things. Why not just leave it at, "the other stuff didn't work for me"?
- sooheon 3y ago
  I guess gratitude != generosity
- bheadmaster 3y ago
  > Different people derive benefit from different things. Why not just leave it at, "the other stuff didn't work for me"? Different people have different opinions. Why not leave it at "I think the other stuff is not new age hippy trash"?
  - igor47 3y ago
    Your correction wasn't my point. I would prefer to live in a kinder world. I explicitly appealed to the parent's likely desires for same. If you prefer to live in a world where people are casual dicks to one another, then I guess there's nothing to take away from my original comment.
    - bheadmaster 3y ago
      And I would prefer to live in a world where people can say what they mean, without having to censor or sugarcoat their speech because someone else prefers not to hear their words. Different people have different preferences. Can't you just leave it at that? Why do you have to go around telling people not to say stuff you dislike in a public forum?
      - igor47 3y ago
        If you truly believe what you just wrote, why did you write it? Didn't you, in effect, dislike what I said and tell me not to say it? The whole point of forums is to productively disagree and hopefully learn something. It's not sugar coating to avoid being casually mean or dismissive -- it's advancing the very reason we're supposedly here.
        Jensson 3y ago
        Original attacked a concept, you attacked an individual. Don't equate the two. The first person who starts to attack an individual will be told to stop, that is the only reasonable way to make people stop attacking individuals so we can argue freely.
        raffraffraff 3y ago
        Oh snap. I just said a long-winded version of the same (didn't see because HN is gloriously old-fashioned)
        bheadmaster 3y ago
        I couldn't have said it better. Thank you for the eloquent explanation.
        raffraffraff 3y ago
        I don't normally get into this type of conversation, and I don't mean to pile-on either, but I think that the target of the dismissiveness is a distinction worth pointing out. The post that you originally replied to was dismissive about some mindfulness techniques. You made it more personal, accusing the poster of being dismissive. This is directed at a person. It's less abstract, and their more likely to cause offence or annoyance. My general rule is that I try to have thicker skin when it comes to assaults on ideas, and be careful not to offend persons.
    - rewmie 3y ago
      > I would prefer to live in a kinder world. OP is being kind to everyone by allowing them to avoid the frustration of wasting time with something that adds no value. You on the other hand are being needlessly confrontational just because someone has an opinion you don't like.
- gonzo41 3y ago
  You're taking that offense. He's not giving it. He's only giving his singular 1 in 8 billion opinion.
- guntherhermann 3y ago
  >How would you feel if, instead, I said "your gratitude practice is actually new age hippy trash"? I would say: "I don't care what you think. It works for me, if it doesn't for you then it doesn't."
- scns 3y ago
  Maybe because being grateful and acceptance/tolerance (in contrast to being judgemental) are to different things?
- lelanthran 3y ago
  > How would you feel if, instead, I said "your gratitude practice is actually new age hippy trash"? Directing the putdown "trash" to an idea and presenting it as a subjective opinion ("The rest of it felt like new-age hippy trash") is quite different to applying the putdown "trash" to a person and presenting it as a fact ("your gratitude practice is actually new age hippy trash"). "Felt like" means "It feels like this to me, your experience may be different" while "is actually" means "This is objective fact, regardless of how I feel about it". It's the difference between saying "that idea is idiotic" and saying "you are idiotic".
mdp2021 3y ago
> hippy The origin of this wave of academical interest comes from that: a few mates in Harward - including K-Z, who butchered the concept introducing the absurd naming which uses the reverse of the concept of 'mind' - were intrigued by suggestions from the Orient. Events such as the fall into disgrace of Leary have been relevant (creating difficulties to said wave as a reaction - a general reaction with the crisis of its parent "hipster" wave).
bheadmaster 3y ago
Grateful/thankful to whom, exactly? It seems to me that the popular (American) practice of gratitude is just a substitute for Christianity, filtered out not to mention any deities explicitly, but still containing references to them implicitly. I consider universe a random and chaotic place. In that worldview, there is nobody to be grateful/thankful to, so the practice of gratitude doesn't make sense.
- guntherhermann 3y ago
  For being able to see For having all of my digits Clean drinking water Effectively infinite light at my fingertips (most of humanity couldn't do much when it got dark). The world's knowledge. So much food that I have to monitor how much I eat so I don't get too fat. For having a loving family, friends. For being given the opportunity to go to university. For having a career that pays well. That's just on the top of my head, but there's many more reasons to be grateful. That kind of thing. I have some physical disabilities, but reminding myself of the good things I do have grounds me, makes me realise all the things I used to stress about aren't really that important.
  - bheadmaster 3y ago
    I'm not asking for reasons. I'm asking: whom are you grateful to?
    - mdp2021 3y ago
      You are misunderstanding the idea. You can be in some internal posture without an excuse. There is no need to have an "eternal reference".
    - guntherhermann 3y ago
      I don't believe in a "creator/higher being" if that's what you're getting at, with that in mind - as I said above - the other people I'm grateful for are my family and my friends. Thinking about it more, I suppose I'm also grateful for the individuals in this world who have had an incredible impact on this world. e.g. Jonas Salk, the guy who invented penecillin, etc.
mdp2021 3y ago
> hip I just realized that "hippie", "hip", "hep" make more sense, for the area in context, than the disgraceful label K-Z introduced. 'Hippie' was used for those who wanted to be "hip", i.e. "up-to-date", because "aware". Originally, the term was used in the underground and was 'hep'. Now, it is pretty clear from the sound why 'hep' can be related to "awareness". And it would make more sense, in reference to that "zone", than using terms that refer to the "mind".
n3storm 3y ago
Thank you. You have always been this honest? or is this something you realize you have to be after being exposed to "mindfulness" mumbojumbo?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- guntherhermann 3y ago
  I have always been a fairly direct person, possibly to the detriment of my career :)
vidarh 3y ago
The "new-age hippy trash" impression kept me away for years. What finally got me to try was "Mindfulness in Plain English" which is available both for free and paid versions, and Gil Fronsdals audio recordings (his introductory series), which are also available for free. They're both more like "how to" guides than spiritual, and mention Buddhism or other practices only in passing (both have much more explicitly spiritual material too for those who want that), and Fronsdal jokes about the "B-word". What I get out of it varies, going from just 5-15 minutes of calm and relaxation to multi-hour deeper meditation, to tumultuous sessions where I get no calm but all kinds of issues or ideas force themselves to the surface. I feel I benefit from all of it, but it's a method or a tool for me, not spiritual.
- kcartlidge 3y ago
  Seconding Gil Fronsdal's audio. He's very clear and reasonably concise.
tlb 3y ago
I did the same, and found a different subset of techniques useful, and the rest new-age nonsense. There are studies showing mindfulness works, but they've only tested the whole smorgasbord of techniques vs. placebo. I guess it would cost a lot more to test each one individually.

igor47 3y ago

Ugh this is so dismissive. I'm glad learning gratitude helped you. How would you feel if, instead, I said "your gratitude practice is actually new age hippy trash"? Different people derive benefit from different things. Why not just leave it at, "the other stuff didn't work for me"?

sooheon 3y ago
I guess gratitude != generosity
bheadmaster 3y ago
> Different people derive benefit from different things. Why not just leave it at, "the other stuff didn't work for me"? Different people have different opinions. Why not leave it at "I think the other stuff is not new age hippy trash"?
- igor47 3y ago
  Your correction wasn't my point. I would prefer to live in a kinder world. I explicitly appealed to the parent's likely desires for same. If you prefer to live in a world where people are casual dicks to one another, then I guess there's nothing to take away from my original comment.
  - bheadmaster 3y ago
    And I would prefer to live in a world where people can say what they mean, without having to censor or sugarcoat their speech because someone else prefers not to hear their words. Different people have different preferences. Can't you just leave it at that? Why do you have to go around telling people not to say stuff you dislike in a public forum?
    - igor47 3y ago
      If you truly believe what you just wrote, why did you write it? Didn't you, in effect, dislike what I said and tell me not to say it? The whole point of forums is to productively disagree and hopefully learn something. It's not sugar coating to avoid being casually mean or dismissive -- it's advancing the very reason we're supposedly here.
      - Jensson 3y ago
        Original attacked a concept, you attacked an individual. Don't equate the two. The first person who starts to attack an individual will be told to stop, that is the only reasonable way to make people stop attacking individuals so we can argue freely.
        raffraffraff 3y ago
        Oh snap. I just said a long-winded version of the same (didn't see because HN is gloriously old-fashioned)
        bheadmaster 3y ago
        I couldn't have said it better. Thank you for the eloquent explanation.
      - raffraffraff 3y ago
        I don't normally get into this type of conversation, and I don't mean to pile-on either, but I think that the target of the dismissiveness is a distinction worth pointing out. The post that you originally replied to was dismissive about some mindfulness techniques. You made it more personal, accusing the poster of being dismissive. This is directed at a person. It's less abstract, and their more likely to cause offence or annoyance. My general rule is that I try to have thicker skin when it comes to assaults on ideas, and be careful not to offend persons.
  - rewmie 3y ago
    > I would prefer to live in a kinder world. OP is being kind to everyone by allowing them to avoid the frustration of wasting time with something that adds no value. You on the other hand are being needlessly confrontational just because someone has an opinion you don't like.
gonzo41 3y ago
You're taking that offense. He's not giving it. He's only giving his singular 1 in 8 billion opinion.
guntherhermann 3y ago
>How would you feel if, instead, I said "your gratitude practice is actually new age hippy trash"? I would say: "I don't care what you think. It works for me, if it doesn't for you then it doesn't."
scns 3y ago
Maybe because being grateful and acceptance/tolerance (in contrast to being judgemental) are to different things?
lelanthran 3y ago
> How would you feel if, instead, I said "your gratitude practice is actually new age hippy trash"? Directing the putdown "trash" to an idea and presenting it as a subjective opinion ("The rest of it felt like new-age hippy trash") is quite different to applying the putdown "trash" to a person and presenting it as a fact ("your gratitude practice is actually new age hippy trash"). "Felt like" means "It feels like this to me, your experience may be different" while "is actually" means "This is objective fact, regardless of how I feel about it". It's the difference between saying "that idea is idiotic" and saying "you are idiotic".

mdp2021 3y ago

> hippy The origin of this wave of academical interest comes from that: a few mates in Harward - including K-Z, who butchered the concept introducing the absurd naming which uses the reverse of the concept of 'mind' - were intrigued by suggestions from the Orient. Events such as the fall into disgrace of Leary have been relevant (creating difficulties to said wave as a reaction - a general reaction with the crisis of its parent "hipster" wave).

bheadmaster 3y ago

Grateful/thankful to whom, exactly? It seems to me that the popular (American) practice of gratitude is just a substitute for Christianity, filtered out not to mention any deities explicitly, but still containing references to them implicitly. I consider universe a random and chaotic place. In that worldview, there is nobody to be grateful/thankful to, so the practice of gratitude doesn't make sense.

guntherhermann 3y ago
For being able to see For having all of my digits Clean drinking water Effectively infinite light at my fingertips (most of humanity couldn't do much when it got dark). The world's knowledge. So much food that I have to monitor how much I eat so I don't get too fat. For having a loving family, friends. For being given the opportunity to go to university. For having a career that pays well. That's just on the top of my head, but there's many more reasons to be grateful. That kind of thing. I have some physical disabilities, but reminding myself of the good things I do have grounds me, makes me realise all the things I used to stress about aren't really that important.
- bheadmaster 3y ago
  I'm not asking for reasons. I'm asking: whom are you grateful to?
  - mdp2021 3y ago
    You are misunderstanding the idea. You can be in some internal posture without an excuse. There is no need to have an "eternal reference".
  - guntherhermann 3y ago
    I don't believe in a "creator/higher being" if that's what you're getting at, with that in mind - as I said above - the other people I'm grateful for are my family and my friends. Thinking about it more, I suppose I'm also grateful for the individuals in this world who have had an incredible impact on this world. e.g. Jonas Salk, the guy who invented penecillin, etc.

mdp2021 3y ago

> hip I just realized that "hippie", "hip", "hep" make more sense, for the area in context, than the disgraceful label K-Z introduced. 'Hippie' was used for those who wanted to be "hip", i.e. "up-to-date", because "aware". Originally, the term was used in the underground and was 'hep'. Now, it is pretty clear from the sound why 'hep' can be related to "awareness". And it would make more sense, in reference to that "zone", than using terms that refer to the "mind".

n3storm 3y ago

Thank you. You have always been this honest? or is this something you realize you have to be after being exposed to "mindfulness" mumbojumbo?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
guntherhermann 3y ago
I have always been a fairly direct person, possibly to the detriment of my career :)

vidarh 3y ago

The "new-age hippy trash" impression kept me away for years. What finally got me to try was "Mindfulness in Plain English" which is available both for free and paid versions, and Gil Fronsdals audio recordings (his introductory series), which are also available for free. They're both more like "how to" guides than spiritual, and mention Buddhism or other practices only in passing (both have much more explicitly spiritual material too for those who want that), and Fronsdal jokes about the "B-word". What I get out of it varies, going from just 5-15 minutes of calm and relaxation to multi-hour deeper meditation, to tumultuous sessions where I get no calm but all kinds of issues or ideas force themselves to the surface. I feel I benefit from all of it, but it's a method or a tool for me, not spiritual.

kcartlidge 3y ago
Seconding Gil Fronsdal's audio. He's very clear and reasonably concise.

tlb 3y ago

I did the same, and found a different subset of techniques useful, and the rest new-age nonsense. There are studies showing mindfulness works, but they've only tested the whole smorgasbord of techniques vs. placebo. I guess it would cost a lot more to test each one individually.