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Is it not economically viable to melt the cars for steel? Or is there not enough demand for steel in Tonga that the steel would need to be shipped abroad anyway

Is it not economically viable to melt the cars for steel? Or is there not enough demand for steel in Tonga that the steel would need to be shipped abroad anyways?

justrealist 3y ago
It's an island chain of 100,000 people, so no. Plus, electricity is extremely expensive, importing the fuel to melt down steel would be crazy.
- Semaphor 3y ago
  > Plus, electricity is extremely expensive I was wondering how much, and, wow: > The December 2022 review indicated that the electricity tariff would decrease from $1.19 per kWh to $1.01 per kWh, effective from the 1st of January 2023. -- http://www.finance.gov.to/node/601 http://www.finance.gov.to/node/601
  - google234123 3y ago
    California is only half the price of that :/
    - Semaphor 3y ago
      Huh, did not know California has higher prices than what I pay in Germany (0.4€ / $0.43)
jemmyw 3y ago
Islands with a total population of 100k. Lack of demand and probably no machinery to melt and process steel, expensive electricity/power to do that kind of processing, lack of other inputs, and a population without the expertise. Given how remote and small it is it's probably not economic to do anything about the problem.
- tjoff 3y ago
  No harbor to ship it?
  - bagels 3y ago
    Probably costs a lot to ship scrap metal out of there. Scrap goes from the US to China cheaply because the boats would be going back empty otherwise.
    - presidentender 3y ago
      What else does Tonga export in such quantities?
      - bagels 3y ago
        Food, apparently.
  - psunavy03 3y ago
    This is why they had to get subsidies from Japan to ship the cars back out. There's demand for cars, but now "someone" needs to deal with the broken ones at end of life. "Someone" has to eat the negative externality of shipping the dead cars off-island.
    - nikau 3y ago
      Seems odd they don't use the same incoming ship to take cars back
      - ttymck 3y ago
        Surely they don't have enough cars to return every time a shipment of new cars comes in. If that was economical, would the abandoned cars have piled up in the first place?
        3y ago
jcranmer 3y ago
The main island of Tonga is 100 mi² with 75k people on it. It's an island that's basically an accumulated coral reef; there's no natural resources you can get from mining it. And it's 2000 miles from the nearest continental landmass. There is no heavy industry on the island, and the economy isn't really capable of supporting heavy industry.
WheatMillington 3y ago
As if it's trivial to process steel.
devoutsalsa 3y ago
In Bangladesh there's a huge appetite for steel because the country lacks meaningful iron deposits. That's a big reason the have a huge ship dismantling industry, and I presume some way to process the steel. But Bangladesh has a population of ~170 million, and Tonga's population is around ~110 thousand. I wonder what the minimum viable population is for supporting scrap metal recycling. How ship-breaking helped shape the steel industry -- https://www.tbsnews.net/supplement/how-ship-breaking-helped-shape-steel-industry-679402 https://www.tbsnews.net/supplement/how-ship-breaking-helped-...

Is it not economically viable to melt the cars for steel? Or is there not enough demand for steel in Tonga that the steel would need to be shipped abroad anyways?

justrealist 3y ago

It's an island chain of 100,000 people, so no. Plus, electricity is extremely expensive, importing the fuel to melt down steel would be crazy.

Semaphor 3y ago
> Plus, electricity is extremely expensive I was wondering how much, and, wow: > The December 2022 review indicated that the electricity tariff would decrease from $1.19 per kWh to $1.01 per kWh, effective from the 1st of January 2023. -- http://www.finance.gov.to/node/601 http://www.finance.gov.to/node/601
- google234123 3y ago
  California is only half the price of that :/
  - Semaphor 3y ago
    Huh, did not know California has higher prices than what I pay in Germany (0.4€ / $0.43)

jemmyw 3y ago

Islands with a total population of 100k. Lack of demand and probably no machinery to melt and process steel, expensive electricity/power to do that kind of processing, lack of other inputs, and a population without the expertise. Given how remote and small it is it's probably not economic to do anything about the problem.

tjoff 3y ago
No harbor to ship it?
- bagels 3y ago
  Probably costs a lot to ship scrap metal out of there. Scrap goes from the US to China cheaply because the boats would be going back empty otherwise.
  - presidentender 3y ago
    What else does Tonga export in such quantities?
    - bagels 3y ago
      Food, apparently.
- psunavy03 3y ago
  This is why they had to get subsidies from Japan to ship the cars back out. There's demand for cars, but now "someone" needs to deal with the broken ones at end of life. "Someone" has to eat the negative externality of shipping the dead cars off-island.
  - nikau 3y ago
    Seems odd they don't use the same incoming ship to take cars back
    - ttymck 3y ago
      Surely they don't have enough cars to return every time a shipment of new cars comes in. If that was economical, would the abandoned cars have piled up in the first place?
      - 3y ago

jcranmer 3y ago

The main island of Tonga is 100 mi² with 75k people on it. It's an island that's basically an accumulated coral reef; there's no natural resources you can get from mining it. And it's 2000 miles from the nearest continental landmass. There is no heavy industry on the island, and the economy isn't really capable of supporting heavy industry.

WheatMillington 3y ago

As if it's trivial to process steel.

devoutsalsa 3y ago

In Bangladesh there's a huge appetite for steel because the country lacks meaningful iron deposits. That's a big reason the have a huge ship dismantling industry, and I presume some way to process the steel. But Bangladesh has a population of ~170 million, and Tonga's population is around ~110 thousand. I wonder what the minimum viable population is for supporting scrap metal recycling. How ship-breaking helped shape the steel industry -- https://www.tbsnews.net/supplement/how-ship-breaking-helped-shape-steel-industry-679402 https://www.tbsnews.net/supplement/how-ship-breaking-helped-...