4 ms·

Sure, but if I was to replace "church" with "school" then I wouldn't be getting half of the downvotes I get despite there not being any real difference in how t

Sure, but if I was to replace "church" with "school" then I wouldn't be getting half of the downvotes I get despite there not being any real difference in how the affinity clubs at a Church/Synagogue vs. PTA (at least back in the 90s) worked. In fact, the Church/Synagogue clubs weren't remotely religious vs. the PTA affinity clubs which required you to be a parent of a kid. Yes, in my town the PTA had clubs. Mens club etc. The conversation is about the "male loneliness epidemic" so fathers and older men, not just 20/30's adults should be included as well.

johnnyanmac 3y ago
>Sure, but if I was to replace "church" with "school" then I wouldn't be getting half of the downvotes I get my condolences, but ultimately I can only speak for myself. I was raised Catholic so it's not like Ive never set foot in a church. It's just not a scene I want to be around. For me, I'd be just as hesitant if a school hosted as Ski club as if a church did for the reasons I described. Maybe it'd e different if it was my alma mater offering various alumni activities (of course, to advertise donations), but I am very far away from that campus. >The conversation is about the "male loneliness epidemic" so fathers and older men, not just 20/30's adults should be included as well. Sure. But I have to admit that I am not yet a father nor older man (at least, if we define "older man" as 40+. I can't speak for them (yet). I only wanted to chime in that I don't reject churches because "they are uncool". I'm not older but I am well past the age of caring about such matters. And I don't think any of my immediate friends would give that reason either.
- mwbajor 3y ago
  Actually, I think the best solution is men only gyms. I belong to one and its great. Of course, setting these types of things up takes time and money, but it can be as simple as a rented garage with some equipment.
  - david-gpu 3y ago
    > Actually, I think the best solution is men only gyms If that works for you, that is great. Personally, I strongly dislike segregated clubs, both ideologically and in practice. I want to interact with people of different backgrounds and avoid inadvertently carving myself into an echo chamber, so segregation (in any dimension) feels a step in the wrong direction for me.
    - em-bee 3y ago
      the only way to solve that is to attend/join multiple groups or clubs. the hackerspace that i visit has one kind of demographic, and the kybernetes meetup that i recently attended, quite another, which is yet very different from the people at the irish folk session or the meetup for self employed people, or the digital nomads meetup. a single group that has a representative distribution of all sections of society does not exist
      - david-gpu 3y ago
        > a single group that has a representative distribution of all sections of society does not exist That is a strawman, and you could make the same argument about any combination of clubs you belong to, as long as they don't include the whole planet. I simply have no interest in a club that explicitly excludes half of the population. A men only club in my mind is just as appealing as a "white people only" club. I.e. not at all.
        mwbajor 3y ago
        You approve of women only clubs though. "They need their safe spaces, right?". Depression and loneliness in men is partially due to the massive hypocrisy in how we treat both sexes.
        em-bee 3y ago
        i hear you. i said something similar myself: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37563960 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37563960 but i was not even thinking about male only groups when i read your comment. i was only trying to point out that segregation along many dimensions is kind of unavoidable. gender and racial segregation (and maybe religion) are actually the exceptions here. yet, i have to accept that most of the groups i join are predominately white males. but it's only a problem when others are explicitly excluded and not just missing because they have different interests. every group is its own echo chamber, and the only way to avoid carving yourself into that echo chamber is to join multiple groups.

johnnyanmac 3y ago

>Sure, but if I was to replace "church" with "school" then I wouldn't be getting half of the downvotes I get my condolences, but ultimately I can only speak for myself. I was raised Catholic so it's not like Ive never set foot in a church. It's just not a scene I want to be around. For me, I'd be just as hesitant if a school hosted as Ski club as if a church did for the reasons I described. Maybe it'd e different if it was my alma mater offering various alumni activities (of course, to advertise donations), but I am very far away from that campus. >The conversation is about the "male loneliness epidemic" so fathers and older men, not just 20/30's adults should be included as well. Sure. But I have to admit that I am not yet a father nor older man (at least, if we define "older man" as 40+. I can't speak for them (yet). I only wanted to chime in that I don't reject churches because "they are uncool". I'm not older but I am well past the age of caring about such matters. And I don't think any of my immediate friends would give that reason either.

mwbajor 3y ago
Actually, I think the best solution is men only gyms. I belong to one and its great. Of course, setting these types of things up takes time and money, but it can be as simple as a rented garage with some equipment.
- david-gpu 3y ago
  > Actually, I think the best solution is men only gyms If that works for you, that is great. Personally, I strongly dislike segregated clubs, both ideologically and in practice. I want to interact with people of different backgrounds and avoid inadvertently carving myself into an echo chamber, so segregation (in any dimension) feels a step in the wrong direction for me.
  - em-bee 3y ago
    the only way to solve that is to attend/join multiple groups or clubs. the hackerspace that i visit has one kind of demographic, and the kybernetes meetup that i recently attended, quite another, which is yet very different from the people at the irish folk session or the meetup for self employed people, or the digital nomads meetup. a single group that has a representative distribution of all sections of society does not exist
    - david-gpu 3y ago
      > a single group that has a representative distribution of all sections of society does not exist That is a strawman, and you could make the same argument about any combination of clubs you belong to, as long as they don't include the whole planet. I simply have no interest in a club that explicitly excludes half of the population. A men only club in my mind is just as appealing as a "white people only" club. I.e. not at all.
      - mwbajor 3y ago
        You approve of women only clubs though. "They need their safe spaces, right?". Depression and loneliness in men is partially due to the massive hypocrisy in how we treat both sexes.
      - em-bee 3y ago
        i hear you. i said something similar myself: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37563960 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37563960 but i was not even thinking about male only groups when i read your comment. i was only trying to point out that segregation along many dimensions is kind of unavoidable. gender and racial segregation (and maybe religion) are actually the exceptions here. yet, i have to accept that most of the groups i join are predominately white males. but it's only a problem when others are explicitly excluded and not just missing because they have different interests. every group is its own echo chamber, and the only way to avoid carving yourself into that echo chamber is to join multiple groups.