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Look at Gemini, it’s their new model, currently in closed beta. Hearsay says that it’s multimodal (can describe images), GPT-4 like param count, and apparently

Look at Gemini, it’s their new model, currently in closed beta. Hearsay says that it’s multimodal (can describe images), GPT-4 like param count, and apparently has search built in so no model knowledge cutoff. Basically they realized Bard couldn’t cut it and merged DeepMind into Google Brain, and got the combined team to work on a better LLM using the stuff OpenAI has figured out since Bard was designed. Takes months to train a model like this though.

ignoramous 3y ago
> Look at Gemini, it’s their new model, currently in closed beta. With all the talent, data, and infrastructure that Google has, I believe them. That said, it is almost comical they'd not unleash what they keep saying is the better model. I am sure they have safety reasons and world security concerns given their gargantuan scale, but nothing they couldn't solve, surely? They make more in a week than what OpenAI probably makes in a year! They seem to be sleep walking compared to the sprinting pace of development around them. You don't say that often about Google. I wonder what makes the Chrome and Android orgs different? Those openly conduct ridiculous experiments all the time.
- murderfs 3y ago
  > They make more in a week than what OpenAI probably makes in a year! This is arguably the problem. OpenAI is loss leading (ChatGPT is free!) with a limited number of users. Scale and maturity work against Google here, because if they were to give an equivalent product to its billions of users, Sundar would have some hard questions to answer at the next quarterly earnings call.
  - theptip 3y ago
    OpenAI is generating lots of revenue: https://fortune.com/2023/08/30/chatgpt-creator-openai-earnings-80-million-a-month-1-billion-annual-revenue-540-million-loss-sam-altman/ https://fortune.com/2023/08/30/chatgpt-creator-openai-earnin...
    - proamdev123 3y ago
      This link says OpenAI makes $80 million per month and is projected to make $1 billion this year. Google (Alphabet) made $5.4 billion per WEEK in revenue last year. ignoramous was right 5 times over!
- version_five 3y ago
  What is the upside for google? Their business is advertising and they have a massive platform for this already. What does a chatbot add? Showing that they are keeping up with evolving technology and that they also can train a competitive offering? From a pride perspective I see why they'd want to compete with OpenAI but from a business perspective? GPT+Bing has come and gone... I'm sure google worries about their business model being disrupted by LLMs but it's clear the mere existence of a chatbot isn't enough. So why rush to a competitive commerical offering?
  - user_named 3y ago
    Cloud.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - taneq 3y ago
    Bing is pretty damn useful these days, I've asked it random technical stuff a bunch of times and it's come back with a direct answer where Google would have me thrashing around trying to come up with the right keywords, then reading a bunch of links myself to find the answer. It's good for "I don't even know the name of the thing I'm looking for" type stuff. Disclaimer: I haven't used Google Search much in a long while so my googlefu is weak. I can usually find what I'm looking for much quicker in DDG which I believe is mostly based on Bing web search results (as opposed to the chatbot) so I might just currently be better trained in Bing keywords?
  - theptip 3y ago
    What's in it for Google is not getting disrupted by OpenAI and losing their entire business, if it turns out that Chat is the new Search. While we seem to be cresting the peak of exuberance and coasting towards the trough of disillusionment, recall how freaked out everybody got a few months ago when everybody started using ChatGPT; Google's stock price tanked and they were getting slaughtered by analysts, so they needed to show a return to dominance on AI. I think if you had ChatGPT but with up-to-date information, you'd see a pretty big substitution effect from Google's search product, so it's better for them to "disrupt themselves" than have another company steal their golden goose. OpenAI competition aside, it's just clearly (to me) going to be a massive product area in the future, and it's going to be lucrative for AdTech companies like Google if they can build the right product (chat sessions are going to be even more valuable for ad placement than search queries).
- lossolo 3y ago
  > That said, it is almost comical they'd not unleash what they keep saying is the better model. Sam Altman (CEO of OpenAi) said that they had GPT-4 model trained around 18 months before they released it. Seems like things like these take a lot of time to test, making sure it's aligned, safe etc.
- kromem 3y ago
  They will. You'll never see AI products being launched without a private test phase after Bing and the Sydney coverage in the NYT. Google probably has something great and is making sure it's not too unexpected in how it's great before wide release. What I'm really curious about though is Meta's commitment to a GPT-4 competitive model. The more Google and OpenAI tread lightly and slowly with closed and heavily restricted models, the more it allows Meta to catch up with open models that as a consequence get greater public research attention.
sanderjd 3y ago
I think the DeepMind / Brain reorg happened way before all this, didn't it? Might be misremembering history...
- theptip 3y ago
  The merger was April ‘23, GPT-4 was March ‘23 which is too close to be the trigger for the re-org, so it was in response to ChatGPT (GPT-3.5). There was talk of a “code red” around that time (December ‘22). https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/20/23691468/google-ai-deepmind-brain-merger https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/20/23691468/google-ai-deepmi... https://www.aiwithvibes.com/p/google-issues-code-red-response-rise-chatgpt https://www.aiwithvibes.com/p/google-issues-code-red-respons...
  - sanderjd 3y ago
    That scans, thanks.

ignoramous 3y ago

> Look at Gemini, it’s their new model, currently in closed beta. With all the talent, data, and infrastructure that Google has, I believe them. That said, it is almost comical they'd not unleash what they keep saying is the better model. I am sure they have safety reasons and world security concerns given their gargantuan scale, but nothing they couldn't solve, surely? They make more in a week than what OpenAI probably makes in a year! They seem to be sleep walking compared to the sprinting pace of development around them. You don't say that often about Google. I wonder what makes the Chrome and Android orgs different? Those openly conduct ridiculous experiments all the time.

murderfs 3y ago
> They make more in a week than what OpenAI probably makes in a year! This is arguably the problem. OpenAI is loss leading (ChatGPT is free!) with a limited number of users. Scale and maturity work against Google here, because if they were to give an equivalent product to its billions of users, Sundar would have some hard questions to answer at the next quarterly earnings call.
- theptip 3y ago
  OpenAI is generating lots of revenue: https://fortune.com/2023/08/30/chatgpt-creator-openai-earnings-80-million-a-month-1-billion-annual-revenue-540-million-loss-sam-altman/ https://fortune.com/2023/08/30/chatgpt-creator-openai-earnin...
  - proamdev123 3y ago
    This link says OpenAI makes $80 million per month and is projected to make $1 billion this year. Google (Alphabet) made $5.4 billion per WEEK in revenue last year. ignoramous was right 5 times over!
version_five 3y ago
What is the upside for google? Their business is advertising and they have a massive platform for this already. What does a chatbot add? Showing that they are keeping up with evolving technology and that they also can train a competitive offering? From a pride perspective I see why they'd want to compete with OpenAI but from a business perspective? GPT+Bing has come and gone... I'm sure google worries about their business model being disrupted by LLMs but it's clear the mere existence of a chatbot isn't enough. So why rush to a competitive commerical offering?
- user_named 3y ago
  Cloud.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- taneq 3y ago
  Bing is pretty damn useful these days, I've asked it random technical stuff a bunch of times and it's come back with a direct answer where Google would have me thrashing around trying to come up with the right keywords, then reading a bunch of links myself to find the answer. It's good for "I don't even know the name of the thing I'm looking for" type stuff. Disclaimer: I haven't used Google Search much in a long while so my googlefu is weak. I can usually find what I'm looking for much quicker in DDG which I believe is mostly based on Bing web search results (as opposed to the chatbot) so I might just currently be better trained in Bing keywords?
- theptip 3y ago
  What's in it for Google is not getting disrupted by OpenAI and losing their entire business, if it turns out that Chat is the new Search. While we seem to be cresting the peak of exuberance and coasting towards the trough of disillusionment, recall how freaked out everybody got a few months ago when everybody started using ChatGPT; Google's stock price tanked and they were getting slaughtered by analysts, so they needed to show a return to dominance on AI. I think if you had ChatGPT but with up-to-date information, you'd see a pretty big substitution effect from Google's search product, so it's better for them to "disrupt themselves" than have another company steal their golden goose. OpenAI competition aside, it's just clearly (to me) going to be a massive product area in the future, and it's going to be lucrative for AdTech companies like Google if they can build the right product (chat sessions are going to be even more valuable for ad placement than search queries).
lossolo 3y ago
> That said, it is almost comical they'd not unleash what they keep saying is the better model. Sam Altman (CEO of OpenAi) said that they had GPT-4 model trained around 18 months before they released it. Seems like things like these take a lot of time to test, making sure it's aligned, safe etc.
kromem 3y ago
They will. You'll never see AI products being launched without a private test phase after Bing and the Sydney coverage in the NYT. Google probably has something great and is making sure it's not too unexpected in how it's great before wide release. What I'm really curious about though is Meta's commitment to a GPT-4 competitive model. The more Google and OpenAI tread lightly and slowly with closed and heavily restricted models, the more it allows Meta to catch up with open models that as a consequence get greater public research attention.

sanderjd 3y ago

I think the DeepMind / Brain reorg happened way before all this, didn't it? Might be misremembering history...

theptip 3y ago
The merger was April ‘23, GPT-4 was March ‘23 which is too close to be the trigger for the re-org, so it was in response to ChatGPT (GPT-3.5). There was talk of a “code red” around that time (December ‘22). https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/20/23691468/google-ai-deepmind-brain-merger https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/20/23691468/google-ai-deepmi... https://www.aiwithvibes.com/p/google-issues-code-red-response-rise-chatgpt https://www.aiwithvibes.com/p/google-issues-code-red-respons...
- sanderjd 3y ago
  That scans, thanks.