> I'll note that all your "poor" examples own a car. This is actually a key point many city dwelling anti-car advocates completely miss. The poor do depend hea

> I'll note that all your "poor" examples own a car. This is actually a key point many city dwelling anti-car advocates completely miss. The poor do depend heavily on cars because they are pushed to the outskirts where they can afford housing but still have to commute to the cities where the jobs are. When I lived outside the Bay Area my car cost me less than what some people here spend on their bikes.