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I think it was in Michael Palin's show Sahara, he's talking to some locals living in a village in the middle of the desert, and while I'm wondering why anyone w

I think it was in Michael Palin's show Sahara, he's talking to some locals living in a village in the middle of the desert, and while I'm wondering why anyone would ever settle out there, the person being interviewed relayed that many more people used to live there before it became a desert. It wasn't that they moved out there, they were all that was left. Kind of post-apocalyptic. Edit: found the mention, he's talking to folks from the dogon tribe in mali, [0]@29min - 30min says that the area was heavily forested 500 years ago. The location is the bandiagara escarpment, old cliff dwellings [1]. All the episode of Sahara are on youtube, I highly recommend the series. [0] https://youtu.be/oZHR16GN1EU https://youtu.be/oZHR16GN1EU [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandiagara_Escarpment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandiagara_Escarpment

RC_ITR 3y ago
Great reminder to all that we know we are effectively killing Lake Chad, but there's not much anyone is really doing about it. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Chad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Chad
- daniel-s 3y ago
  Same story for the Aral sea. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea
- jansan 3y ago
  How exactly are "we" killing Lake Chad and what would be an easy solution to save it? Also, who is "we"?
  - RC_ITR 3y ago
    Humans. How do you want me to segment us to minimize the problem? And we are killing it by diverting water from it.
    - true_religion 3y ago
      Segmenting maximizes rather than minimizes. When the problem is caused by all humans in the world, then no one feels pressured to do anything. If you could instead name people individually, they would have to take a stand to actually do something about the issue.
      - ithkuil 3y ago
        Why would they have to take a stand? Ah because other people would make them take a stand. Why would these other people make the first group of people take a stand? Because they care. What if they don't care? Somebody else should pressure them into caring so they can pressure the ones who can do something about it. Etc etc My point is that this is what it's usually meant by "we are not doing anything about it". It generally means that there is not enough collective awareness about an issue for the people involved to have enough incentives to do the right thing. Some people observe that the issue is under somebody else's direct responsibility but draw the conclusion that the responsibility chain ends there. Other people instead think it's their responsibility to apply some sort of pressure from outside and failure to even attempt to do so extends the responsibility of the inaction to them too. Some of those people extend their feeling of responsibility to also shame people for not shaming other people. This is all natural and human and as with all human things it functions well until it fails catastrophically
ProjectArcturis 3y ago
The Earth's precession cycles driving Sahara rainfall have a period of about 23,000 years. Whatever caused deforestation there over the past 500 years likely was distinct from the Green Sahara cycles.
- jazzyjackson 3y ago
  I was mistaken in saying "the middle of the desert", the area of mali being toured is decidedly on the edge of the desert.
mr_toad 3y ago
Timbuktu’s population dropped by 4/5ths since the Middle Ages, from a near legendary city to a nearly forgotten one.
- jazzyjackson 3y ago
  Any recommended sources to learn more about it?
  - mr_toad 3y ago
    Not of Timbuktu specifically. There are books on the history of West Africa, or Mansa Musa.
  - ak39 3y ago
    Paul MM Cooper's podcasts and video essays on YT are excellent. There's info on Mansa Musa in this episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfUT6LhBBYs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfUT6LhBBYs
  - AareyBaba 3y ago
    The Fall of Civilization series: The Songhai Empire - Africa's Age of Gold https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfUT6LhBBYs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfUT6LhBBYs
Hammershaft 3y ago
Pretty amazing clip, sent me down a rabbit hole. I can't help but think what extreme climate niches our descendants 500 years from now might be surviving in, that were once fertile & lush.

RC_ITR 3y ago

Great reminder to all that we know we are effectively killing Lake Chad, but there's not much anyone is really doing about it. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Chad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Chad

daniel-s 3y ago
Same story for the Aral sea. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea
jansan 3y ago
How exactly are "we" killing Lake Chad and what would be an easy solution to save it? Also, who is "we"?
- RC_ITR 3y ago
  Humans. How do you want me to segment us to minimize the problem? And we are killing it by diverting water from it.
  - true_religion 3y ago
    Segmenting maximizes rather than minimizes. When the problem is caused by all humans in the world, then no one feels pressured to do anything. If you could instead name people individually, they would have to take a stand to actually do something about the issue.
    - ithkuil 3y ago
      Why would they have to take a stand? Ah because other people would make them take a stand. Why would these other people make the first group of people take a stand? Because they care. What if they don't care? Somebody else should pressure them into caring so they can pressure the ones who can do something about it. Etc etc My point is that this is what it's usually meant by "we are not doing anything about it". It generally means that there is not enough collective awareness about an issue for the people involved to have enough incentives to do the right thing. Some people observe that the issue is under somebody else's direct responsibility but draw the conclusion that the responsibility chain ends there. Other people instead think it's their responsibility to apply some sort of pressure from outside and failure to even attempt to do so extends the responsibility of the inaction to them too. Some of those people extend their feeling of responsibility to also shame people for not shaming other people. This is all natural and human and as with all human things it functions well until it fails catastrophically

ProjectArcturis 3y ago

The Earth's precession cycles driving Sahara rainfall have a period of about 23,000 years. Whatever caused deforestation there over the past 500 years likely was distinct from the Green Sahara cycles.

jazzyjackson 3y ago
I was mistaken in saying "the middle of the desert", the area of mali being toured is decidedly on the edge of the desert.

mr_toad 3y ago

Timbuktu’s population dropped by 4/5ths since the Middle Ages, from a near legendary city to a nearly forgotten one.

jazzyjackson 3y ago
Any recommended sources to learn more about it?
- mr_toad 3y ago
  Not of Timbuktu specifically. There are books on the history of West Africa, or Mansa Musa.
- ak39 3y ago
  Paul MM Cooper's podcasts and video essays on YT are excellent. There's info on Mansa Musa in this episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfUT6LhBBYs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfUT6LhBBYs
- AareyBaba 3y ago
  The Fall of Civilization series: The Songhai Empire - Africa's Age of Gold https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfUT6LhBBYs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfUT6LhBBYs

Hammershaft 3y ago

Pretty amazing clip, sent me down a rabbit hole. I can't help but think what extreme climate niches our descendants 500 years from now might be surviving in, that were once fertile & lush.