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I live in a rich country and can afford a smartphone but I don't want a site that needs JavaScript to work. I don't want 4G or 5G or above to be mandatory to wo

by rakoo 3y ago

I live in a rich country and can afford a smartphone but I don't want a site that needs JavaScript to work. I don't want 4G or 5G or above to be mandatory to work well. Because this is completely at odds with what we should be doing environmentally wise: keep existing devices as long as possible without needing to buy new ones, and just use less energy overall. Don't change a website because it feels old, because that's energy that could be used elsewhere. Don't require heavy interactivity. Don't require Yet Another network.

dangus 3y ago
You don’t want to have 4G? Hate to break it to you, in the US 3G has already been shut off. There is only 4G/5G. The same will follow for all other countries. LTE is more cost effective and better for cellular carriers and users. This idea from the hardcore tech Luddite community that the web has died the moment we have to run a line of JavaScript is completely ridiculous. My computer from 1999 could run JavaScript in the browser. It’s time to get over it. Plus, email has an alternative with mail clients, which are a better experience for users with poor data connectivity, anyway.
- xethos 3y ago
  Not OP, but I don't think the point is 3G vs 4G. I think (and hold the same ideal myself) that requirements should be kept as low as feasible. HTML gMail is there, it works, it's unlikely its maintenance would break the bank for Google - so why kill it? We will be pushed to 4G sooner or later, but lower requirements helps at any major events with lots of traffic on cell towers, or a slow, spotty, over-subscribed wifi connection at an airport or hotel. It helps when your main device breaks, but you don't want one app with high memory requirements to kill everything else on your (old) backup.
  - dangus 3y ago
    Here’s my guess: nobody’s actually using the HTML gmail anymore because device and network capability has improved tenfold or more globally in the last decade or so. The amount of people who moved from feature phones to smartphones is basically everyone. Slow and spotty connections are a nostalgic memory for most people, and even if they’re not, Google provides low bandwidth alternatives via their app and third party mail clients. It’s fine that this service doesn’t cost much money to run but if nobody’s using it there’s no point.
- rakoo 3y ago
  It's not that I don't want 4G, it's that I don't want to need 4G. Yes, 4G is more efficient for the same amount of data... but Jevons is fully active and we are consuming way more data in 4G than in 3G to the point that we are just using more and more equipment, devices, services, ... I am proud to call myself a luddite, because contrary to popular knowledge luddites (and neo-luddites) are not technophobic but technocritics: they question whether a technological progress is also a social progress, a human progress, an environmental progress. There is little reason to believe that 4G and 5G are such. If your computer from 1999 can run current websites, why change websites ?
  - dangus 3y ago
    If you’re really a Luddite you’d just use POP for email access, which predates HTML and is offered by gmail. Isn’t static HTML too heavy for your slow connection? If your computer from 1990 can download emails with POP, why change to HTML?
aragonite 3y ago
is Basic HTML Gmail free of JS? I had to use it recently I remember typing in the to/from fields and there were autocomplete pop-ups.
- rakoo 3y ago
  There is javascript and javascript, it's all about the proper amount of complexity. Just like HN that does have JS but only a tiny amount, not necessary for working, and can still work without. I don't know how gmail works, my comment is more general. I want more HN-like and less Medium-like

by rakoo 3y ago

dangus 3y ago

You don’t want to have 4G? Hate to break it to you, in the US 3G has already been shut off. There is only 4G/5G. The same will follow for all other countries. LTE is more cost effective and better for cellular carriers and users. This idea from the hardcore tech Luddite community that the web has died the moment we have to run a line of JavaScript is completely ridiculous. My computer from 1999 could run JavaScript in the browser. It’s time to get over it. Plus, email has an alternative with mail clients, which are a better experience for users with poor data connectivity, anyway.

xethos 3y ago
Not OP, but I don't think the point is 3G vs 4G. I think (and hold the same ideal myself) that requirements should be kept as low as feasible. HTML gMail is there, it works, it's unlikely its maintenance would break the bank for Google - so why kill it? We will be pushed to 4G sooner or later, but lower requirements helps at any major events with lots of traffic on cell towers, or a slow, spotty, over-subscribed wifi connection at an airport or hotel. It helps when your main device breaks, but you don't want one app with high memory requirements to kill everything else on your (old) backup.
- dangus 3y ago
  Here’s my guess: nobody’s actually using the HTML gmail anymore because device and network capability has improved tenfold or more globally in the last decade or so. The amount of people who moved from feature phones to smartphones is basically everyone. Slow and spotty connections are a nostalgic memory for most people, and even if they’re not, Google provides low bandwidth alternatives via their app and third party mail clients. It’s fine that this service doesn’t cost much money to run but if nobody’s using it there’s no point.
rakoo 3y ago
It's not that I don't want 4G, it's that I don't want to need 4G. Yes, 4G is more efficient for the same amount of data... but Jevons is fully active and we are consuming way more data in 4G than in 3G to the point that we are just using more and more equipment, devices, services, ... I am proud to call myself a luddite, because contrary to popular knowledge luddites (and neo-luddites) are not technophobic but technocritics: they question whether a technological progress is also a social progress, a human progress, an environmental progress. There is little reason to believe that 4G and 5G are such. If your computer from 1999 can run current websites, why change websites ?
- dangus 3y ago
  If you’re really a Luddite you’d just use POP for email access, which predates HTML and is offered by gmail. Isn’t static HTML too heavy for your slow connection? If your computer from 1990 can download emails with POP, why change to HTML?

aragonite 3y ago

is Basic HTML Gmail free of JS? I had to use it recently I remember typing in the to/from fields and there were autocomplete pop-ups.

rakoo 3y ago
There is javascript and javascript, it's all about the proper amount of complexity. Just like HN that does have JS but only a tiny amount, not necessary for working, and can still work without. I don't know how gmail works, my comment is more general. I want more HN-like and less Medium-like