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It is actually a surprising that Russia is not the manufacturing capital of the world. They have super-cheap energy, Soviet-era high-quality STEM education, and

by 0xDEF 3y ago

It is actually a surprising that Russia is not the manufacturing capital of the world. They have super-cheap energy, Soviet-era high-quality STEM education, and 50 million cheap workers from Caucasus, Siberia, Far East Russia, and the Central Asian countries.

EliRivers 3y ago
Soviet-era high-quality STEM education The last batch of such manufacturing apprentices went through in the mid-eighties. They're just about all gone from the workplace.
- cpursley 3y ago
  Tell that to the US aerospace industry which is full of Russian and Soviet trained engineers (who are not in their 90s).
  - dllthomas 3y ago
    I would guess the nit being picked was "Soviet era" rather than whether there are Russian engineers trained since then.
  - EliRivers 3y ago
    Soviet trained engineers; last batch was in the eighties, so the youngest of them are now in their fifties and the majority of them are retired or dead.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
Russia is still structured as an empire, though the fraction of ethnic Russians is relatively high, historically speaking. That, together with its large size, requires a large section of the economy be slaved to the security sector. Frankly, Russia as a Chinese suzerainty might be one of the more productive alignments for the global economy, even if it isn’t great for America.
- cpursley 3y ago
  I knew I'd be able to bait you out of hiding with my comment. The handful of resident anti-Russian zealots on here are so predicable. I mean goodness, can we just admire a cool boat for a second?
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > bait you out of hiding with my comment What? With this [1] comment? Look at the time stamps. (Do we know each other?) > Don't you have anything at all nice to say about them? About the current Russian state? No. It’s pathetic and broken, and I don’t see a way to fix it other than devolving it—functionally, not legally—to China. About Russia as a culture, people and nation? Of course. Russian literature from the classics (Turgenev) to mid-century (Bulgakov) and modern, together with Soviet films, are among my favourite genres. I love the food. I adore the operas and music. And Russians’ sense of wit and humour is among the sharpest and funniest in the world. As a species also we’re eternally in the Soviet Union’s debt for their aerospace and medical advances, to say nothing of dealing the death blow to the Nazis at Leningrad. Much of my bitterness towards Moscow stems from knowledge of the potential of Russia’s people that is being squandered, delayed or permanently destroyed, in service of delusions. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37562330 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37562330
    - cpursley 3y ago
      You love their food? Totally misread you ;)
- pydry 3y ago
  For those interested in a more analytical approach, this article/youTube video explains how the geographical vulnerability of Russia's western borders has led to both its high degree of overall militarization as well as its extreme sensitivity over Ukraine in particular: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/12/05/caspian_report_why_russia_thinks_it_needs_to_restore_soviet_borders.html# https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/12/05/caspian_r...! Although it is usually ignored, geography is fundamental to understanding why nations act the way they do.
freefaler 3y ago
And a very corrupted government and no rule of law. China is also corrupted, but the level of corruption in Russia is on a different level. Also declining population and worsening education. There is a statistically significant correlation between the level of corruption and economic growth: https://documents.worldbank.org/en/publication/documents-reports/documentdetail/175291468765621959/corruption-in-economic-development-beneficial-grease-minor-annoyance-or-major-obstacle https://documents.worldbank.org/en/publication/documents-rep... Putin has dismantled most of the check and balances in the system. Nobody would invest in that country. Check Bill Browder's story on how they raided the Hermitage fund. And with this useless war going on they're forced to buy arms from DPRK.
- vGPU 3y ago
  > And a very corrupted government and no rule of law. Claim without evidence. Let’s throw in a bit of whataboutism- have you seen how improbably good pelosi’s stock market trades are? Almost like she’s insider trading. > Also declining population and worsening education. Population seems to be more or less in line with the rest of the world, and likely better once you factor for immigration. “In 2014 the Pearson/Economist Intelligence Unit rated Russia's education as the 8th-best in Europe and the 13th-best in the world” “In 2016 the US company Bloomberg rated Russia's higher education as the third-best in the world” I mean really. I get that we all have biases, but lying about such easily verifiable things is pathetic, even for the average anti-Russian propaganda shill.
  - freefaler 3y ago
    I am Russian and I know what I'm talking about living in that place about corruption and business and institutions. Corruption data with sources: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/average-rating-of-corruption-perception https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/average-rating-of-corrupt... About demographics check these: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Aging_of_Russia&useskin=vector https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Aging_of_Russia&u... About education: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/pisa-score-of-the-worst-and-best-student-by-country?time=earliest..2018&country=~RUS https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/pisa-score-of-the-worst-a... Let's not cite "Bloomberg" as a good data source for this. It's not good enough.
Pavel_KF 3y ago
[dead]
cpursley 3y ago
They don't really have the population for it. In fact, they've got an acute skilled labor shortage (and had one even before the war).
- jollyllama 3y ago
  Key to understanding this is understanding the massive toll that was inflicted on Russia during WWII.
wrp 3y ago
> It is actually a surprising that Russia is not the manufacturing capital of the world. Why the USSR did not become a major industrial exporter has been the subject of some good historical studies. It's been a while, so I don't have any good references at hand, but I recall that the main problem was Soviet management policies. Companies had a very hard time implementing quality control, and the government was also reluctant to close obsolete plants, because their primary goal was to maintain full employment.

by 0xDEF 3y ago

EliRivers 3y ago

Soviet-era high-quality STEM education The last batch of such manufacturing apprentices went through in the mid-eighties. They're just about all gone from the workplace.

cpursley 3y ago
Tell that to the US aerospace industry which is full of Russian and Soviet trained engineers (who are not in their 90s).
- dllthomas 3y ago
  I would guess the nit being picked was "Soviet era" rather than whether there are Russian engineers trained since then.
- EliRivers 3y ago
  Soviet trained engineers; last batch was in the eighties, so the youngest of them are now in their fifties and the majority of them are retired or dead.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

Russia is still structured as an empire, though the fraction of ethnic Russians is relatively high, historically speaking. That, together with its large size, requires a large section of the economy be slaved to the security sector. Frankly, Russia as a Chinese suzerainty might be one of the more productive alignments for the global economy, even if it isn’t great for America.

cpursley 3y ago
I knew I'd be able to bait you out of hiding with my comment. The handful of resident anti-Russian zealots on here are so predicable. I mean goodness, can we just admire a cool boat for a second?
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > bait you out of hiding with my comment What? With this [1] comment? Look at the time stamps. (Do we know each other?) > Don't you have anything at all nice to say about them? About the current Russian state? No. It’s pathetic and broken, and I don’t see a way to fix it other than devolving it—functionally, not legally—to China. About Russia as a culture, people and nation? Of course. Russian literature from the classics (Turgenev) to mid-century (Bulgakov) and modern, together with Soviet films, are among my favourite genres. I love the food. I adore the operas and music. And Russians’ sense of wit and humour is among the sharpest and funniest in the world. As a species also we’re eternally in the Soviet Union’s debt for their aerospace and medical advances, to say nothing of dealing the death blow to the Nazis at Leningrad. Much of my bitterness towards Moscow stems from knowledge of the potential of Russia’s people that is being squandered, delayed or permanently destroyed, in service of delusions. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37562330 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37562330
  - cpursley 3y ago
    You love their food? Totally misread you ;)
pydry 3y ago
For those interested in a more analytical approach, this article/youTube video explains how the geographical vulnerability of Russia's western borders has led to both its high degree of overall militarization as well as its extreme sensitivity over Ukraine in particular: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/12/05/caspian_report_why_russia_thinks_it_needs_to_restore_soviet_borders.html# https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/12/05/caspian_r...! Although it is usually ignored, geography is fundamental to understanding why nations act the way they do.

freefaler 3y ago

And a very corrupted government and no rule of law. China is also corrupted, but the level of corruption in Russia is on a different level. Also declining population and worsening education. There is a statistically significant correlation between the level of corruption and economic growth: https://documents.worldbank.org/en/publication/documents-reports/documentdetail/175291468765621959/corruption-in-economic-development-beneficial-grease-minor-annoyance-or-major-obstacle https://documents.worldbank.org/en/publication/documents-rep... Putin has dismantled most of the check and balances in the system. Nobody would invest in that country. Check Bill Browder's story on how they raided the Hermitage fund. And with this useless war going on they're forced to buy arms from DPRK.

vGPU 3y ago
> And a very corrupted government and no rule of law. Claim without evidence. Let’s throw in a bit of whataboutism- have you seen how improbably good pelosi’s stock market trades are? Almost like she’s insider trading. > Also declining population and worsening education. Population seems to be more or less in line with the rest of the world, and likely better once you factor for immigration. “In 2014 the Pearson/Economist Intelligence Unit rated Russia's education as the 8th-best in Europe and the 13th-best in the world” “In 2016 the US company Bloomberg rated Russia's higher education as the third-best in the world” I mean really. I get that we all have biases, but lying about such easily verifiable things is pathetic, even for the average anti-Russian propaganda shill.
- freefaler 3y ago
  I am Russian and I know what I'm talking about living in that place about corruption and business and institutions. Corruption data with sources: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/average-rating-of-corruption-perception https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/average-rating-of-corrupt... About demographics check these: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Aging_of_Russia&useskin=vector https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Aging_of_Russia&u... About education: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/pisa-score-of-the-worst-and-best-student-by-country?time=earliest..2018&country=~RUS https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/pisa-score-of-the-worst-a... Let's not cite "Bloomberg" as a good data source for this. It's not good enough.

Pavel_KF 3y ago

[dead]

cpursley 3y ago

They don't really have the population for it. In fact, they've got an acute skilled labor shortage (and had one even before the war).

jollyllama 3y ago
Key to understanding this is understanding the massive toll that was inflicted on Russia during WWII.

wrp 3y ago

> It is actually a surprising that Russia is not the manufacturing capital of the world. Why the USSR did not become a major industrial exporter has been the subject of some good historical studies. It's been a while, so I don't have any good references at hand, but I recall that the main problem was Soviet management policies. Companies had a very hard time implementing quality control, and the government was also reluctant to close obsolete plants, because their primary goal was to maintain full employment.