6 ms·

We don't really have a lack of third places per se. "Churches, cafes, clubs, public libraries, gyms, bookstores, stoops and parks" are not exactly in short sup

by caesil 3y ago

We don't really have a lack of third places per se. "Churches, cafes, clubs, public libraries, gyms, bookstores, stoops and parks" are not exactly in short supply in the United States. The problem is that it's difficult to get a critical mass of people out to them regularly. Getting in a car to go drive somewhere is a huge pain in the ass. Doubly so if you have children and you have to secure them in carseats and pack all the stuff they require. Third places work where you can walk to them from your home. As long as we stay glued to car dependency, we won't have them.

threatofrain 3y ago
We have many cities, not all of them having the same profile of car-ness vs public transportation, density, proximity to 3rd places, etc. Do we observe differences among cities, such as NYC?
- bravetraveler 3y ago
  This is good to raise/consider - for example, I'm in Austin now. It's a 45 minute adventure to do almost anything Columbus on the other hand, I could run to a suburb across the city, do my thing, and be back in less time. I self-isolate far more in places like Austin than Columbus, largely due to the hassle of getting to/fro
  - JambalayaJim 3y ago
    I would not have considered Columbus to be a city with good public transit, interesting
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      While they wrote “run”, I presume they meant they can drive to various parts of the Columbus metropolitan region much more quickly and reliably than to various places in the Austin metro.
      - bravetraveler 3y ago
        Indeed, driving mostly. Some foot traffic, the neighborhoods were a bit more sensibly laid out with the immediate needs nearby. I can't speak to public transport... growing up in a rural area I've always been predisposed to driving whatever bucket I had :) It's so starkly different of a driving experience, I have to assume it compounds the time seen on their routes!
thelastparadise 3y ago
> "Churches, cafes, clubs, public libraries, gyms, bookstores, stoops and parks" Except for church, going to most of these places is going to be counterproductive for the kind of person the article is about. These people go out to these places, yet are "invisible." The social norm (at least in America) is to not talk to strangers unless there is a reason. Especially for an older male, approaching strangers is often met with disgust/shock just as the article mentions.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  Yeah, I try to make sure I go out to a cafe a few times a week but I can't remember the last time a stranger approached me to just chat (actually, yes I can but it was a very odd story. And Pre-pandemic). And going to a park as a single male to chat up random adults sounds like a recipe for disaster.
mwbajor 3y ago
"We don't really have a lack of third places per se." Yes we do, people traded all the good person-to-person interactions that are probably critical for human evolution for facebook. The churches and synogogues in my town had dozens of clubs that were completely non-religions, ski-club, scuba-club, travel club, etc. Since going to church/temple became uncool, so did going to the clubs. We've replaced it with social media. One of many examples. Getting in the car is not a pain in the ass if you have kids, doubly so if its worth it and limits screentime. And again with the "cars are evil routine"... do you realize that the interior of the US was vibrant and well connected with many "3rd places"? This is a region of the US where it might be 10-60mins to the next "3rd place" by car, and by many accounts, society was much more healthier even with the added commute time.
- JambalayaJim 3y ago
  >And again with this “cars are evil routine” I can’t speak to the interior US and how lovely it was or wasn’t. I grew up in a car based suburb. It didn’t really have much for people to do. My grandma went and left because she couldn’t drive and was bored. I couldn’t afford my own car until I was 25, and I left shortly after anyway. I could easily see my dad being very lonely while I was young. Everyday he went to work and then spent the rest of the evening ferrying everyone around. He’s now doing social things like playing badminton etc. That will probably stop once he gets too old to drive.
- pixl97 3y ago
  People replaced church as soon as they possibly could because it seems they don't like being abused by people that like to tell them that skydaddy is sending them to hell. You're attempting to sell a solution that already failed in the marketplace of ideas, that is church. Because churches were tied so strongly with different clubs, they were dragged down by the same anchor. The problem was we had no other social 'third places' in place, and the greedy hand of capitalism was there to extract as much money from people looking to do something. When the internet rose to power you suddenly had a 'free' (terms and conditions may apply) alternative. >Getting in the car is not a pain in the ass if you have kids, Right, that's why people write papers called "The Contraceptive effect of car seats". I do believe more research is needed on your part.
zolbrek 3y ago
You don't have a backpack ready to go full of stuff your child would normally need? If my daughter lived with me full time I'd probably keep a bag in the car 24/7 for that very purpose. I'd like to hear more about your carseat problems too.
- pixl97 3y ago
  Car seats as contraception https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3665046 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3665046
alexfromapex 3y ago
The problem is you go to the library or cafe and there’s a board with all the groups that meet and they’re all mom groups or women-centric.
em-bee 3y ago
large spread out cities are a problem. in beijing or any other large chinese city you can't go anywhere with public transport without spending an hour traveling from home, and any two interesting places are at least half an hour away from each other. in vienna i can cross the greater part of the city in half an hour and most places of interest are within less than 15 minutes from each other.

by caesil 3y ago

threatofrain 3y ago

We have many cities, not all of them having the same profile of car-ness vs public transportation, density, proximity to 3rd places, etc. Do we observe differences among cities, such as NYC?

bravetraveler 3y ago
This is good to raise/consider - for example, I'm in Austin now. It's a 45 minute adventure to do almost anything Columbus on the other hand, I could run to a suburb across the city, do my thing, and be back in less time. I self-isolate far more in places like Austin than Columbus, largely due to the hassle of getting to/fro
- JambalayaJim 3y ago
  I would not have considered Columbus to be a city with good public transit, interesting
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    While they wrote “run”, I presume they meant they can drive to various parts of the Columbus metropolitan region much more quickly and reliably than to various places in the Austin metro.
    - bravetraveler 3y ago
      Indeed, driving mostly. Some foot traffic, the neighborhoods were a bit more sensibly laid out with the immediate needs nearby. I can't speak to public transport... growing up in a rural area I've always been predisposed to driving whatever bucket I had :) It's so starkly different of a driving experience, I have to assume it compounds the time seen on their routes!

thelastparadise 3y ago

> "Churches, cafes, clubs, public libraries, gyms, bookstores, stoops and parks" Except for church, going to most of these places is going to be counterproductive for the kind of person the article is about. These people go out to these places, yet are "invisible." The social norm (at least in America) is to not talk to strangers unless there is a reason. Especially for an older male, approaching strangers is often met with disgust/shock just as the article mentions.

johnnyanmac 3y ago
Yeah, I try to make sure I go out to a cafe a few times a week but I can't remember the last time a stranger approached me to just chat (actually, yes I can but it was a very odd story. And Pre-pandemic). And going to a park as a single male to chat up random adults sounds like a recipe for disaster.

mwbajor 3y ago

"We don't really have a lack of third places per se." Yes we do, people traded all the good person-to-person interactions that are probably critical for human evolution for facebook. The churches and synogogues in my town had dozens of clubs that were completely non-religions, ski-club, scuba-club, travel club, etc. Since going to church/temple became uncool, so did going to the clubs. We've replaced it with social media. One of many examples. Getting in the car is not a pain in the ass if you have kids, doubly so if its worth it and limits screentime. And again with the "cars are evil routine"... do you realize that the interior of the US was vibrant and well connected with many "3rd places"? This is a region of the US where it might be 10-60mins to the next "3rd place" by car, and by many accounts, society was much more healthier even with the added commute time.

JambalayaJim 3y ago
>And again with this “cars are evil routine” I can’t speak to the interior US and how lovely it was or wasn’t. I grew up in a car based suburb. It didn’t really have much for people to do. My grandma went and left because she couldn’t drive and was bored. I couldn’t afford my own car until I was 25, and I left shortly after anyway. I could easily see my dad being very lonely while I was young. Everyday he went to work and then spent the rest of the evening ferrying everyone around. He’s now doing social things like playing badminton etc. That will probably stop once he gets too old to drive.
pixl97 3y ago
People replaced church as soon as they possibly could because it seems they don't like being abused by people that like to tell them that skydaddy is sending them to hell. You're attempting to sell a solution that already failed in the marketplace of ideas, that is church. Because churches were tied so strongly with different clubs, they were dragged down by the same anchor. The problem was we had no other social 'third places' in place, and the greedy hand of capitalism was there to extract as much money from people looking to do something. When the internet rose to power you suddenly had a 'free' (terms and conditions may apply) alternative. >Getting in the car is not a pain in the ass if you have kids, Right, that's why people write papers called "The Contraceptive effect of car seats". I do believe more research is needed on your part.

zolbrek 3y ago

You don't have a backpack ready to go full of stuff your child would normally need? If my daughter lived with me full time I'd probably keep a bag in the car 24/7 for that very purpose. I'd like to hear more about your carseat problems too.

pixl97 3y ago
Car seats as contraception https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3665046 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3665046

alexfromapex 3y ago

The problem is you go to the library or cafe and there’s a board with all the groups that meet and they’re all mom groups or women-centric.

em-bee 3y ago

large spread out cities are a problem. in beijing or any other large chinese city you can't go anywhere with public transport without spending an hour traveling from home, and any two interesting places are at least half an hour away from each other. in vienna i can cross the greater part of the city in half an hour and most places of interest are within less than 15 minutes from each other.