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Exactly this. And, a hard look at building construction standards in regards to HVAC, electrical and plumbing could help too. Plumbing is about $5.25 sq/ft fo

Exactly this. And, a hard look at building construction standards in regards to HVAC, electrical and plumbing could help too. Plumbing is about $5.25 sq/ft for new construction [1] and electrical is about $9 sq/ft [2]. On a 2,000 sq/ft house, this is almost $30,000 alone. Permit costs should be looked at too. In my city, permit costs alone are $5,000 [3]. Permitting also has a hidden cost, because frequently in my city, the inspections take months. My neighbor's 1800 sq/ft 2bed 2 bath house build took two years, most of it spent waiting for inspections. This increases costs substantially. [1] - https://www.forbes.com/home-improvement/plumbing/install-replace-plumbing-cost/ https://www.forbes.com/home-improvement/plumbing/install-rep... [2] - https://www.electriciantalk.com/threads/estimate-for-new-house.278962/ https://www.electriciantalk.com/threads/estimate-for-new-hou... [3] - https://www.houzeo.com/blog/how-much-does-it-cost-to-build-a-house-austin-tx/ https://www.houzeo.com/blog/how-much-does-it-cost-to-build-a...

bombcar 3y ago
The fixed costs of building keep rising, so there is no point in building a minimum code sized house (you have some really great houses in 700 sq ft). Nobody will build a 700 sq ft house because the fixed costs are such that the per sq ft goes plaid.
- jermaustin1 3y ago
  It really is such a shame. Houses just keep getting bigger. I would love a modern 1200 square foot house, but I would either have to buy a 1960s home with all the issues that come with it, or pay 2-3x per sqft of a "Master Planned Community"
  - pierat 3y ago
    Don't forget the $300/mo HOA fees with that 'master planned community'.
  - tzs 3y ago
    What issues are you worried about a 1960s home having? I can think of a few things that might be issues with some houses that old, but they are all things that your inspector would find. A home that old is unlikely to have any original appliances, and has a good chance to have been upgraded to 200 amp electrical service. The roof has probably been replaced a couple times. So for all that it isn't really much different than buying a house that is maybe 10 years old. Some things might be grandfathered in from earlier codes, which can be a little annoying but in most cases probably won't cause problems. Insulation might not be up to current standards, which could be a problem depending on the climate.
    - bombcar 3y ago
      Inspectors would find them, perhaps, but not much you can do about it. Some examples of issues with older homes: * Older, just general wear and tear * Asbestos * Insufficient heating/cooling * Badly designed insulation * Low number of outlets per room * Smaller rooms * Annoying layout (basement washer/dryer, etc) The real sweet spot is probably to hire a builder to build exactly what you want, but you need to wait for a downturn when they're available (they make much more money smashing out nearly identical developments).
PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
What is it in the building codes that you think should be dispensed with? I follow them to a moderate degree, and my impression is that (1) the major costs are labor (which I find appropriate) (2) most the requirements that have been added in, say, that last 3-4 decades are welcome and positive.
- xnx 3y ago
  I'm not an expert in this area, but some municipalities have restrictions on cheaper construction techniques (e.g. requiring copper piping instead of PEX for plumbing, EMT conduit instead of Romex for wiring). This is often due to union influence instead of any safety reason.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    Given that you are required to be a licensed electrician to work in more or less any municipality that has a building code, unions requiring <harder, more expensive thing> instead of <easier, cheaper thing> seems less important. Most of the times I've dug in and researched these "unions are holding us back" claims, they tend to generally evaporate. Also, given the way shrinkflation and related phenomena work, do you actually believe that if a municipality went from banning PEX to allowing it, the prices of new homes in its boundaries would go down?
- barelysapient 3y ago
  I would welcome a honest review from a qualified third party. Picking one example out of thin air, I'd say AFCI breakers are overkill and add a fair amount of cost. For HVAC, requiring a fused disconnect within 6ft of the unit is overkill when the panel with an appropriate shutoff is already located in an accessible area. The code requirements make things safer in probably 90% of the situations. But they also increase the cost substantially. With the affordability crisis in housing, I think we should look for places where a small reduction in safety can yield big savings on cost.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago

bombcar 3y ago

The fixed costs of building keep rising, so there is no point in building a minimum code sized house (you have some really great houses in 700 sq ft). Nobody will build a 700 sq ft house because the fixed costs are such that the per sq ft goes plaid.

jermaustin1 3y ago
It really is such a shame. Houses just keep getting bigger. I would love a modern 1200 square foot house, but I would either have to buy a 1960s home with all the issues that come with it, or pay 2-3x per sqft of a "Master Planned Community"
- pierat 3y ago
  Don't forget the $300/mo HOA fees with that 'master planned community'.
- tzs 3y ago
  What issues are you worried about a 1960s home having? I can think of a few things that might be issues with some houses that old, but they are all things that your inspector would find. A home that old is unlikely to have any original appliances, and has a good chance to have been upgraded to 200 amp electrical service. The roof has probably been replaced a couple times. So for all that it isn't really much different than buying a house that is maybe 10 years old. Some things might be grandfathered in from earlier codes, which can be a little annoying but in most cases probably won't cause problems. Insulation might not be up to current standards, which could be a problem depending on the climate.
  - bombcar 3y ago
    Inspectors would find them, perhaps, but not much you can do about it. Some examples of issues with older homes: * Older, just general wear and tear * Asbestos * Insufficient heating/cooling * Badly designed insulation * Low number of outlets per room * Smaller rooms * Annoying layout (basement washer/dryer, etc) The real sweet spot is probably to hire a builder to build exactly what you want, but you need to wait for a downturn when they're available (they make much more money smashing out nearly identical developments).

PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago

What is it in the building codes that you think should be dispensed with? I follow them to a moderate degree, and my impression is that (1) the major costs are labor (which I find appropriate) (2) most the requirements that have been added in, say, that last 3-4 decades are welcome and positive.

xnx 3y ago
I'm not an expert in this area, but some municipalities have restrictions on cheaper construction techniques (e.g. requiring copper piping instead of PEX for plumbing, EMT conduit instead of Romex for wiring). This is often due to union influence instead of any safety reason.
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
  Given that you are required to be a licensed electrician to work in more or less any municipality that has a building code, unions requiring <harder, more expensive thing> instead of <easier, cheaper thing> seems less important. Most of the times I've dug in and researched these "unions are holding us back" claims, they tend to generally evaporate. Also, given the way shrinkflation and related phenomena work, do you actually believe that if a municipality went from banning PEX to allowing it, the prices of new homes in its boundaries would go down?
barelysapient 3y ago
I would welcome a honest review from a qualified third party. Picking one example out of thin air, I'd say AFCI breakers are overkill and add a fair amount of cost. For HVAC, requiring a fused disconnect within 6ft of the unit is overkill when the panel with an appropriate shutoff is already located in an accessible area. The code requirements make things safer in probably 90% of the situations. But they also increase the cost substantially. With the affordability crisis in housing, I think we should look for places where a small reduction in safety can yield big savings on cost.
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago