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I think the idea with campaigns like these is not to actually root out spies - it's to get people to self censor because they're afraid that their neighbor is g

I think the idea with campaigns like these is not to actually root out spies - it's to get people to self censor because they're afraid that their neighbor is going to report them to the government. If everyone is afraid of saying any forbidden ideas, nothing "subversive" can spread because everyone lives in too much fear to spread it. Knowledge of this campaign is more important than the function of the campaign itself

prewett 3y ago
It's kind of impressive to watch Xi continually double-down on disastrous policy. The memory of the Cultural Revolution is still there, and nobody wants to revisit those times. But after the disastrous Shanghai lockdowns, a lot of ordinary people realized that the government can just arbitrarily lock you up and destroy your ability to earn money / run your business. Young people who sacrificed their childhood to relentless studying only to find no jobs get tone-deaf messaging about "eating bitterness". People can only take so much. The Covid lockdowns turned out to be too much. But I think that many people, especially youth, are still pretty near too much. You can only pile on so much pressure before things explode, and Xi doesn't have Mao's charisma.
- klibertp 3y ago
  Same here, the first thing I thought after reading the title was "wait, again?!" - knowing what inciting people to hunt witches usually turns into, I thought that guy is utterly fearless, at the very least. Though, maybe he counts on this push not to work. He might see it as a temporary measure that will fizzle out quickly, giving him some time and not many headaches down the road. He'd be an incurable optimist then... If this incitement works, it'll leave a mark on society for many decades into the future. In the best case, people will enjoy the ride for a few years and then tacitly agree not to speak of it. In the worst, there will be widespread lynches, pogroms, bloodshed on the level of Stalinist purges, then either a revolution or Great Terror for years to decades, and it'll take a century to fully (if that's even possible) heal. What does Xi want to get out of it, really? Surely he's not stupid enough to think he'll catch any of the actual spies that are bound to be there anyway? Is whatever he wants to gain really worth playing with this particular fire? It would be safer to start an actual war, like his buddy did...
- gottorf 3y ago
  > It's kind of impressive to watch Xi continually double-down on disastrous policy. "Well, did it work for those people?" "No, it never does. I mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might... but it might work for us." Autocrats' egos are bigger than history lessons, I suppose.
- gmerc 3y ago
  I think it’s a global phenomenon. We are seeing a rise of fascism across the globe, the policy and leadership choices made by key parties in the largest western countries is not seem like they learned from the 1920s at all Most nuclear armed nations are now ruled by old men with quasi autocratic power concentrated like at no time in the last 80 years. Even the US had a brush with an authoritarian coup attempt and languishes on whether to roll the dice on that again.
- tsss 3y ago
  Apparently, at least all of the "little red book" social media users do want to revisit those times.
morbicer 3y ago
Astute observation. Soviet Union did the same thing, even turning children against parents so the "forbidden thoughts" are not mentioned even in the privacy of home. Thought police. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavlik_Morozov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavlik_Morozov

prewett 3y ago

It's kind of impressive to watch Xi continually double-down on disastrous policy. The memory of the Cultural Revolution is still there, and nobody wants to revisit those times. But after the disastrous Shanghai lockdowns, a lot of ordinary people realized that the government can just arbitrarily lock you up and destroy your ability to earn money / run your business. Young people who sacrificed their childhood to relentless studying only to find no jobs get tone-deaf messaging about "eating bitterness". People can only take so much. The Covid lockdowns turned out to be too much. But I think that many people, especially youth, are still pretty near too much. You can only pile on so much pressure before things explode, and Xi doesn't have Mao's charisma.

klibertp 3y ago
Same here, the first thing I thought after reading the title was "wait, again?!" - knowing what inciting people to hunt witches usually turns into, I thought that guy is utterly fearless, at the very least. Though, maybe he counts on this push not to work. He might see it as a temporary measure that will fizzle out quickly, giving him some time and not many headaches down the road. He'd be an incurable optimist then... If this incitement works, it'll leave a mark on society for many decades into the future. In the best case, people will enjoy the ride for a few years and then tacitly agree not to speak of it. In the worst, there will be widespread lynches, pogroms, bloodshed on the level of Stalinist purges, then either a revolution or Great Terror for years to decades, and it'll take a century to fully (if that's even possible) heal. What does Xi want to get out of it, really? Surely he's not stupid enough to think he'll catch any of the actual spies that are bound to be there anyway? Is whatever he wants to gain really worth playing with this particular fire? It would be safer to start an actual war, like his buddy did...
gottorf 3y ago
> It's kind of impressive to watch Xi continually double-down on disastrous policy. "Well, did it work for those people?" "No, it never does. I mean, these people somehow delude themselves into thinking it might... but it might work for us." Autocrats' egos are bigger than history lessons, I suppose.
gmerc 3y ago
I think it’s a global phenomenon. We are seeing a rise of fascism across the globe, the policy and leadership choices made by key parties in the largest western countries is not seem like they learned from the 1920s at all Most nuclear armed nations are now ruled by old men with quasi autocratic power concentrated like at no time in the last 80 years. Even the US had a brush with an authoritarian coup attempt and languishes on whether to roll the dice on that again.
tsss 3y ago
Apparently, at least all of the "little red book" social media users do want to revisit those times.

morbicer 3y ago

Astute observation. Soviet Union did the same thing, even turning children against parents so the "forbidden thoughts" are not mentioned even in the privacy of home. Thought police. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavlik_Morozov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavlik_Morozov