5 ms·

The money is in growing saplings of white-pine, the ones commercial re-planters will buy - because they grow fast and can be turned into toilet paper in 25(?) y

by jvm___ 3y ago

The money is in growing saplings of white-pine, the ones commercial re-planters will buy - because they grow fast and can be turned into toilet paper in 25(?) years. Growing saplings of local 'slow' growing, non-harvestable species doesn't make you $$$. "In essence, forest nurseries tended to maintain a limited inventory of a select few species, electing to prioritize those valued for commercial timber production over species required for conservation, ecological restoration, or climate adaptation." "Yet, in their 20-state survey, the team only found two tree nurseries that had inventory of red spruce, a species from which many millions of seedlings are needed to meet restoration goals. “Remarkably, only 800 red spruce seedlings were commercially available for purchase in 2022,” the team reports in their new Bioscience study, “—enough to reforest less than one hectare.”

myshpa 3y ago
Maybe we should plant seeds, same as nature does. Dozens of different seeds per m2, nature would choose what'd survive and flourish. An example of a forest farm planted with the same approach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ST9NyHf09M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ST9NyHf09M
- RetroTechie 3y ago
  I recall some initiative (in Africa, iirc) where locals would collect seeds of random herbs, shrubs, trees etc, mix those up & pack into seed bombs. Then others who travel around for their work, would toss those in random places. From bicycle thrown some distance from roadside, or a bush pilot dropping some during flight, etc. Basically as many different seeds in as many different places as possible. Then let nature do its thing. Note this was still mostly local. So not introducing invasive species from other side of the globe. Just helping native species to spread a bit further & faster.
  - myshpa 3y ago
    Yes, that's a very effective method. Such initiatives are all over the world. It's based on ancient method of seedballs, promoted by Fukuoka. https://www.permaculturenews.org/2014/06/18/making-seedballs-ancient-method-till-agriculture/ https://www.permaculturenews.org/2014/06/18/making-seedballs... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqYTz6-zGcg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqYTz6-zGcg
- freedude 3y ago
  The same problem exists at the seed level. Who is collecting the 2 trillion seeds (50% germination rate)?
  - myshpa 3y ago
    It's a similar problem but on a smaller scale (it's easier/cheaper to collect & spread seeds than grow & plant the seedlings).
  - zo1 3y ago
    Perhaps we could, I dunno, pay people to do it with the millions(billions) of dollars of carbon credits? Isn't that what they're for?
- mvdtnz 3y ago
  If you want to prioritise speedy regeneration then this is not the best approach. Nature is incredibly effective in the slow and steady mode of operation but to maximise efficiency you need to be more deliberate.
  - myshpa 3y ago
    This method is known as "close planting" or "high-density planting". It's frequently employed in regeneration projects, such as the Green Great Wall in China. Syntropic agriculture, as seen in the video I've posted, and Miyawaki forests also use this approach. Akira Miyawaki developed a variant of this method, which involves planting a variety of native species in close proximity. The idea is that the trees compete for sunlight, growing upwards more than outwards, leading to a fast-establishing and diverse forest. https://www.sugiproject.com/blog/the-miyawaki-method-for-creating-forests https://www.sugiproject.com/blog/the-miyawaki-method-for-cre... Another example would be Mark Shephard's farm where he's using his Sheer Utter Total Neglect (STUN) method. He describes in his video that the goal is to find a combination of plants that is so resilient, that you can't kill those trees even if you try. https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=RePJ3rJa1Wg https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=RePJ3rJa1Wg Sure, it's essential to ensure that the selected species are suitable for the specific soil, climate, and conditions of the site. Additionally, as the forest grows, some form of management, like thinning or selective removal of species, may be required to ensure the forest remains healthy and achieves the desired goals.
    - mvdtnz 3y ago
      Did you even read your own links? They are carefully preparing soil and planting saplings, not randomly scattering seeds. The exact opposite of what gp is suggesting. They are planting in an intentional manner exactly as I said.
      - myshpa 3y ago
        > carefully preparing soil and planting sapling None of that is strictly necessary. While it helps, it's not a requirement. Simply selecting the right seeds, maximizing cover/photosynthesis, and perhaps mowing at the appropriate time are usually sufficient, unless the soil is seriously degraded. https://www.amazon.com/Sowing-Seeds-Desert-Restoration-Ultimate/dp/1603585222 https://www.amazon.com/Sowing-Seeds-Desert-Restoration-Ultim... Fukuoka spent years working with people and organizations in Africa, India, Southeast Asia, Europe, and the United States, to prove that you could, indeed, grow food and regenerate forests with very little irrigation in the most desolate of places. By randomly scattering seeds.
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
Supply and demand then; if there's demand for a million of these saplings, the nurseries will adapt. I don't understand why this is posited as a weird finding. Just place an order for X saplings and the nurseries will get to work.

by jvm___ 3y ago

myshpa 3y ago

Maybe we should plant seeds, same as nature does. Dozens of different seeds per m2, nature would choose what'd survive and flourish. An example of a forest farm planted with the same approach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ST9NyHf09M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ST9NyHf09M

RetroTechie 3y ago
I recall some initiative (in Africa, iirc) where locals would collect seeds of random herbs, shrubs, trees etc, mix those up & pack into seed bombs. Then others who travel around for their work, would toss those in random places. From bicycle thrown some distance from roadside, or a bush pilot dropping some during flight, etc. Basically as many different seeds in as many different places as possible. Then let nature do its thing. Note this was still mostly local. So not introducing invasive species from other side of the globe. Just helping native species to spread a bit further & faster.
- myshpa 3y ago
  Yes, that's a very effective method. Such initiatives are all over the world. It's based on ancient method of seedballs, promoted by Fukuoka. https://www.permaculturenews.org/2014/06/18/making-seedballs-ancient-method-till-agriculture/ https://www.permaculturenews.org/2014/06/18/making-seedballs... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqYTz6-zGcg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqYTz6-zGcg
freedude 3y ago
The same problem exists at the seed level. Who is collecting the 2 trillion seeds (50% germination rate)?
- myshpa 3y ago
  It's a similar problem but on a smaller scale (it's easier/cheaper to collect & spread seeds than grow & plant the seedlings).
- zo1 3y ago
  Perhaps we could, I dunno, pay people to do it with the millions(billions) of dollars of carbon credits? Isn't that what they're for?
mvdtnz 3y ago
If you want to prioritise speedy regeneration then this is not the best approach. Nature is incredibly effective in the slow and steady mode of operation but to maximise efficiency you need to be more deliberate.
- myshpa 3y ago
  This method is known as "close planting" or "high-density planting". It's frequently employed in regeneration projects, such as the Green Great Wall in China. Syntropic agriculture, as seen in the video I've posted, and Miyawaki forests also use this approach. Akira Miyawaki developed a variant of this method, which involves planting a variety of native species in close proximity. The idea is that the trees compete for sunlight, growing upwards more than outwards, leading to a fast-establishing and diverse forest. https://www.sugiproject.com/blog/the-miyawaki-method-for-creating-forests https://www.sugiproject.com/blog/the-miyawaki-method-for-cre... Another example would be Mark Shephard's farm where he's using his Sheer Utter Total Neglect (STUN) method. He describes in his video that the goal is to find a combination of plants that is so resilient, that you can't kill those trees even if you try. https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=RePJ3rJa1Wg https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=RePJ3rJa1Wg Sure, it's essential to ensure that the selected species are suitable for the specific soil, climate, and conditions of the site. Additionally, as the forest grows, some form of management, like thinning or selective removal of species, may be required to ensure the forest remains healthy and achieves the desired goals.
  - mvdtnz 3y ago
    Did you even read your own links? They are carefully preparing soil and planting saplings, not randomly scattering seeds. The exact opposite of what gp is suggesting. They are planting in an intentional manner exactly as I said.
    - myshpa 3y ago
      > carefully preparing soil and planting sapling None of that is strictly necessary. While it helps, it's not a requirement. Simply selecting the right seeds, maximizing cover/photosynthesis, and perhaps mowing at the appropriate time are usually sufficient, unless the soil is seriously degraded. https://www.amazon.com/Sowing-Seeds-Desert-Restoration-Ultimate/dp/1603585222 https://www.amazon.com/Sowing-Seeds-Desert-Restoration-Ultim... Fukuoka spent years working with people and organizations in Africa, India, Southeast Asia, Europe, and the United States, to prove that you could, indeed, grow food and regenerate forests with very little irrigation in the most desolate of places. By randomly scattering seeds.

Cthulhu_ 3y ago

Supply and demand then; if there's demand for a million of these saplings, the nurseries will adapt. I don't understand why this is posited as a weird finding. Just place an order for X saplings and the nurseries will get to work.