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I have been to Uganda a few years ago to work on a voluntary project. If you see numbers like the number of people living under $1 per day and you see the image

by ma2rten 15y ago

I have been to Uganda a few years ago to work on a voluntary project. If you see numbers like the number of people living under $1 per day and you see the images on TV you come to think of people in Africa just as pitiful. However, I got the feeling that the people in Uganda are actually more happy than the people in Northern Europe. Maybe wealth is actually inversely correlated with happiness?

ticks 15y ago
It's probably got more to do with choice. If those TED talks are to be believed, then choice is bad for mental health. If you are wealthy or live in a wealthy country then you have lots of choice. It's somewhat ironic because politicians that operate within wealthy countries will often emphasize choice as a reason for privatising public services etc.
- mseebach 15y ago
  The problem with choice is that even knowing that it's bad for mental health, that doesn't translate into a moral prerogative to forcefully limit the choice of other people. But yeah, choice, and its cousin perspective: If a bad day involves not eating or your brother dying from preventable disease, it's not hard to see how a meal every day of the week and good health can translate into happiness.
- yummyfajitas 15y ago
  The paradox of choice is not very robust in practice. The experiments are often difficult to replicate and small variations in experiment design make the paradox of choice vanish. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/9cebd444-cd9c-11de-8162-00144feabdc0.html http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/9cebd444-cd9c-11de-8162-00144feabd...
haukur 15y ago
I went to Uganda three years ago and I was amazed at their amiability and apparent happiness, especially considering their situation. I was greeted with smiles everywhere I went. I'm from Iceland and in comparison Icelanders are very cold. Perhaps the climate is a factor?
- pinaceae 15y ago
  because you were a foreigner, a guest, an attraction. i went to iceland and only found nice, cheerful people. i am from austria, so did blend in a bit. if you're nordic and visiting uganda your appearance alone makes you something special and easily recognized (and potentially wealthy, so treating you nice might pay off). that's why being a short-term visitor teaches you practically nothing about a culture. you need to live and work there to actually see the true nature of everyday people, you're novelty needs to wear off. exceptions to this exist, some cultures simply treat foreigners/tourists badly. classic viennese coffee houses have some of the most irritating waiters on earth, embodying the anti-thesis to the US-services-smile. try getting a cheque in under 5min, i dare you :)
roel_v 15y ago
There is vast scientific evidence that 'happiness' is positively correlated with 'wealth' (both in quotes to indicate that they're broad concepts, I'm not interested in discussing specific definitions). The scientific history is broadly that in the 1970's, it was thought there was little correlation (the 'Easterlin paradox'), in the 1980's and 1990's it was thought there was correlation up to some point of wealth (e.g., income of 15k USD) and after that there was little to none, but in the last decade (with better data and more thought into the subject) even that doesn't seem to hold any more. (yes marginal utility decreases but aside from that). So, in general, the empirical evidence points to 'more money = more happiness'. The literature on this spans decades, a 'popular' paper of the last few years that references much of the historical papers and as such can serve as a starting point is [Stevenson & Wolfers, 2008] (http://bpp.wharton.upenn.edu/betseys/papers/Happiness.pdf http://bpp.wharton.upenn.edu/betseys/papers/Happiness.pdf). (a quote in the 'community' on this topic nowadays is (although I haven't been able to verify a source for it): "the average Togolese man would be hospitalised for depression in Denmark.").
- ma2rten 15y ago
  Actually, I had though about this issue some more and I looked up this type of research. So my actual point of view is a little bit more nuanced then what I wrote in the parent post. However, I though it would be helpful to start with a proactive thesis to get people thinking about this issue. Often people in the West just see people in Africa as victims, based on what they see in the media. Start seeing them as humans. The average Togolese man would be hospitalised for depression in Denmark. That sounds a bit odd to me, though. How come the suicide rate in Africa is much lower (close to zero) than in Europe?
  - zorked 15y ago
    I read somewhere that suicide is correlated with post-traumatic stress disorder. People who live in a constant state of trauma are unlikely to suicide, which is also why suicide rates are believed to go down during wars. That doesn't mean that people are happy, just that they are not killing themselves.
  - 15y ago
kamaal 15y ago
>>Maybe wealth is actually inversely correlated with happiness? No, Its probably Ignorance is bliss. Just take them around a trip across Europe and you will see that their happiness will vanish. Peer comparisons are a major reason why many people loose their happiness.
- VMG 15y ago
  Wouldn't watching TV have the same effect as a Europe trip?
  - dagw 15y ago
    I'd guess that it's a lot easier to rationalize away what you see on TV ("it's just a made up story, selective editing, propaganda etc.").
DanBC 15y ago
There are a few things that you miss. The life expectancy at birth for someone in the Republic of Uganda is about 53 years. Only 2% of their population is over 65. (US: 78 years & 13%) So you're missing a bunch of old people who would be depressed, if they weren't dead. Stigma means that you just don't see people with psychotic illness. People with mood disorders tend to self-isolate, so they're hidden too. And mental illness isn't always recognised nor treated in Uganda. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/katine/2010/may/19/mental-health-uganda http://www.guardian.co.uk/katine/2010/may/19/mental-health-u...) > Mental illness does not receive the same attention as HIV/Aids or malaria, but is just as serious. A consultant psychiatrist at Butabika hospital, Uganda's national referral mental hospital, recently told The New Vision newspaper that 35% of Ugandans – about 11.5 million people – suffer from some form of mental illness, with depression being one of the most common. But barely half of these people seek medical attention from health centres in a country where people only associate mental illness with advanced and manic psychosis. (I'm not sure that mental illness is as serious as HIV / AIDS. It is serious.) But Uganda has made lots of good changes to their mental health treatment systems. (http://www.ijmhs.com/content/4/1/1 http://www.ijmhs.com/content/4/1/1) And there's a big "service user" group. (http://www.mentalhealthuganda.org/ http://www.mentalhealthuganda.org/) This wikipedia list shows mixed results for developing world nations for rates of suicide. Suicide isn't a great indicator for rates of poor mental health, but it gives an indication. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_ra...)
molsongolden 15y ago
I had this same feeling while living in Nepal. Nepal is about on par with Uganda according to the HDI but the people there seem much happier in their day to day lives.

by ma2rten 15y ago

ticks 15y ago

It's probably got more to do with choice. If those TED talks are to be believed, then choice is bad for mental health. If you are wealthy or live in a wealthy country then you have lots of choice. It's somewhat ironic because politicians that operate within wealthy countries will often emphasize choice as a reason for privatising public services etc.

mseebach 15y ago
The problem with choice is that even knowing that it's bad for mental health, that doesn't translate into a moral prerogative to forcefully limit the choice of other people. But yeah, choice, and its cousin perspective: If a bad day involves not eating or your brother dying from preventable disease, it's not hard to see how a meal every day of the week and good health can translate into happiness.
yummyfajitas 15y ago
The paradox of choice is not very robust in practice. The experiments are often difficult to replicate and small variations in experiment design make the paradox of choice vanish. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/9cebd444-cd9c-11de-8162-00144feabdc0.html http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/9cebd444-cd9c-11de-8162-00144feabd...

haukur 15y ago

I went to Uganda three years ago and I was amazed at their amiability and apparent happiness, especially considering their situation. I was greeted with smiles everywhere I went. I'm from Iceland and in comparison Icelanders are very cold. Perhaps the climate is a factor?

pinaceae 15y ago
because you were a foreigner, a guest, an attraction. i went to iceland and only found nice, cheerful people. i am from austria, so did blend in a bit. if you're nordic and visiting uganda your appearance alone makes you something special and easily recognized (and potentially wealthy, so treating you nice might pay off). that's why being a short-term visitor teaches you practically nothing about a culture. you need to live and work there to actually see the true nature of everyday people, you're novelty needs to wear off. exceptions to this exist, some cultures simply treat foreigners/tourists badly. classic viennese coffee houses have some of the most irritating waiters on earth, embodying the anti-thesis to the US-services-smile. try getting a cheque in under 5min, i dare you :)

roel_v 15y ago

There is vast scientific evidence that 'happiness' is positively correlated with 'wealth' (both in quotes to indicate that they're broad concepts, I'm not interested in discussing specific definitions). The scientific history is broadly that in the 1970's, it was thought there was little correlation (the 'Easterlin paradox'), in the 1980's and 1990's it was thought there was correlation up to some point of wealth (e.g., income of 15k USD) and after that there was little to none, but in the last decade (with better data and more thought into the subject) even that doesn't seem to hold any more. (yes marginal utility decreases but aside from that). So, in general, the empirical evidence points to 'more money = more happiness'. The literature on this spans decades, a 'popular' paper of the last few years that references much of the historical papers and as such can serve as a starting point is [Stevenson & Wolfers, 2008] (http://bpp.wharton.upenn.edu/betseys/papers/Happiness.pdf http://bpp.wharton.upenn.edu/betseys/papers/Happiness.pdf). (a quote in the 'community' on this topic nowadays is (although I haven't been able to verify a source for it): "the average Togolese man would be hospitalised for depression in Denmark.").

ma2rten 15y ago
Actually, I had though about this issue some more and I looked up this type of research. So my actual point of view is a little bit more nuanced then what I wrote in the parent post. However, I though it would be helpful to start with a proactive thesis to get people thinking about this issue. Often people in the West just see people in Africa as victims, based on what they see in the media. Start seeing them as humans. The average Togolese man would be hospitalised for depression in Denmark. That sounds a bit odd to me, though. How come the suicide rate in Africa is much lower (close to zero) than in Europe?
- zorked 15y ago
  I read somewhere that suicide is correlated with post-traumatic stress disorder. People who live in a constant state of trauma are unlikely to suicide, which is also why suicide rates are believed to go down during wars. That doesn't mean that people are happy, just that they are not killing themselves.
- 15y ago

kamaal 15y ago

>>Maybe wealth is actually inversely correlated with happiness? No, Its probably Ignorance is bliss. Just take them around a trip across Europe and you will see that their happiness will vanish. Peer comparisons are a major reason why many people loose their happiness.

VMG 15y ago
Wouldn't watching TV have the same effect as a Europe trip?
- dagw 15y ago
  I'd guess that it's a lot easier to rationalize away what you see on TV ("it's just a made up story, selective editing, propaganda etc.").

DanBC 15y ago

There are a few things that you miss. The life expectancy at birth for someone in the Republic of Uganda is about 53 years. Only 2% of their population is over 65. (US: 78 years & 13%) So you're missing a bunch of old people who would be depressed, if they weren't dead. Stigma means that you just don't see people with psychotic illness. People with mood disorders tend to self-isolate, so they're hidden too. And mental illness isn't always recognised nor treated in Uganda. (http://www.guardian.co.uk/katine/2010/may/19/mental-health-uganda http://www.guardian.co.uk/katine/2010/may/19/mental-health-u...) > Mental illness does not receive the same attention as HIV/Aids or malaria, but is just as serious. A consultant psychiatrist at Butabika hospital, Uganda's national referral mental hospital, recently told The New Vision newspaper that 35% of Ugandans – about 11.5 million people – suffer from some form of mental illness, with depression being one of the most common. But barely half of these people seek medical attention from health centres in a country where people only associate mental illness with advanced and manic psychosis. (I'm not sure that mental illness is as serious as HIV / AIDS. It is serious.) But Uganda has made lots of good changes to their mental health treatment systems. (http://www.ijmhs.com/content/4/1/1 http://www.ijmhs.com/content/4/1/1) And there's a big "service user" group. (http://www.mentalhealthuganda.org/ http://www.mentalhealthuganda.org/) This wikipedia list shows mixed results for developing world nations for rates of suicide. Suicide isn't a great indicator for rates of poor mental health, but it gives an indication. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_ra...)

molsongolden 15y ago

I had this same feeling while living in Nepal. Nepal is about on par with Uganda according to the HDI but the people there seem much happier in their day to day lives.