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The entire point of the airplane is to never get into close combat. It's like asking which navy has better bayonets.

belter 3y ago
A theory pushed constantly by the F-35 program, but quickly dismissed by the Ukrainian War. "Dogfight Over Ukraine Shows The Air War Is Still Very Much Being Fought" - https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/dogfight-over-ukraine-shows-the-air-war-is-still-very-much-being-fought https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/dogfight-over-ukraine-...
- dncornholio 3y ago
  This is a video of a fighter plane launching 2 missiles. It doesn't dismiss anything.
- dylan604 3y ago
  Just because the F-35 was designed to be a strike aircraft more than a dogfighter doesn't mean that it won't be put in those situations. We've been using butter knives as screwdrivers for as long as we've had a butter knife but no screwdriver.
- some_random 3y ago
  That dogfight is newsworthy because it's exceptional, and even still it's not a turning duel by any stretch of the imagination. The real takeaway from the Ukrainian war is that stealth and engagement range are paramount.
  - dgroshev 3y ago
    …plus SEAD/DEAD are incredibly important and (AFAIK) there is only one air force on the planet that systematically develops and deploys tech and trains for it.
- justsomehnguy 3y ago
  > theory pushed constantly by the F-35 program Because F-35 operation manual, chapter 1, "Combat prerequisites": Lob anti-SAM missiles till the enemy wouldn't have any operational SAM, then you can fly in on your fancy F-35. /s but only slightly
deleted 3y ago
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xjlin0 3y ago
F-4 Phantom was a great fighter serving US Navy, Marine and Air Force. It equipped with missiles to kill enemies in the beyond visual range, didn't equip internal guns in the first generation because "it shouldn't get into close combat" .....
- cityhall 3y ago
  And the F-15's design slogan was "Not a pound for air to ground". Guess what it's being used for now?
  - justsomehnguy 3y ago
    Quite amusingly, Su-27 was an air superiority fighter at it's infancy.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - snowwrestler 3y ago
    Same with the F-16, which started life as a skunkworks project that prioritized dogfighting but is today heavily used for close air support and bombing.
    - dragonwriter 3y ago
      While the skunkworks project and even the initial government Lightweight Fighter project had an air-to-air dogfighting focus, the program under which the F-16 development was conpleted and it was eventually purchased was for a multirole fighter, that wasn't a post-purchase usage evolution.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    The F-15E Strike Eagle is a different, significantly heavier and higher payload was produced by a separate, later project abd competition from the original air-to-air F-15 (its competitor was thr F-16XL, which would have been the F-16E/F if selected.) And the F-15EX Eagle II is an even newer aircraft. The F-15C/D are still air-to-air fighters.

A theory pushed constantly by the F-35 program, but quickly dismissed by the Ukrainian War. "Dogfight Over Ukraine Shows The Air War Is Still Very Much Being Fought" - https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/dogfight-over-ukraine-shows-the-air-war-is-still-very-much-being-fought https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/dogfight-over-ukraine-...

dncornholio 3y ago
This is a video of a fighter plane launching 2 missiles. It doesn't dismiss anything.
dylan604 3y ago
Just because the F-35 was designed to be a strike aircraft more than a dogfighter doesn't mean that it won't be put in those situations. We've been using butter knives as screwdrivers for as long as we've had a butter knife but no screwdriver.
some_random 3y ago
That dogfight is newsworthy because it's exceptional, and even still it's not a turning duel by any stretch of the imagination. The real takeaway from the Ukrainian war is that stealth and engagement range are paramount.
- dgroshev 3y ago
  …plus SEAD/DEAD are incredibly important and (AFAIK) there is only one air force on the planet that systematically develops and deploys tech and trains for it.
justsomehnguy 3y ago
> theory pushed constantly by the F-35 program Because F-35 operation manual, chapter 1, "Combat prerequisites": Lob anti-SAM missiles till the enemy wouldn't have any operational SAM, then you can fly in on your fancy F-35. /s but only slightly

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

xjlin0 3y ago

F-4 Phantom was a great fighter serving US Navy, Marine and Air Force. It equipped with missiles to kill enemies in the beyond visual range, didn't equip internal guns in the first generation because "it shouldn't get into close combat" .....

cityhall 3y ago
And the F-15's design slogan was "Not a pound for air to ground". Guess what it's being used for now?
- justsomehnguy 3y ago
  Quite amusingly, Su-27 was an air superiority fighter at it's infancy.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- snowwrestler 3y ago
  Same with the F-16, which started life as a skunkworks project that prioritized dogfighting but is today heavily used for close air support and bombing.
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    While the skunkworks project and even the initial government Lightweight Fighter project had an air-to-air dogfighting focus, the program under which the F-16 development was conpleted and it was eventually purchased was for a multirole fighter, that wasn't a post-purchase usage evolution.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  The F-15E Strike Eagle is a different, significantly heavier and higher payload was produced by a separate, later project abd competition from the original air-to-air F-15 (its competitor was thr F-16XL, which would have been the F-16E/F if selected.) And the F-15EX Eagle II is an even newer aircraft. The F-15C/D are still air-to-air fighters.