7 ms·

I think a country can not exist with just big cities, or at least it should not be forced to. Small towns will always be more expensive than cities to maintain,

I think a country can not exist with just big cities, or at least it should not be forced to. Small towns will always be more expensive than cities to maintain, this should not mean that small towns should then get less facilities. It's the equality vs equity discussion based in geography

irrational 3y ago
Why can a country not exist with just big cities?
- johannes1234321 3y ago
  Countries can exist with only big cities, but then they are dependant on other countries. In small cities you among other things have more agriculture and different forms of industry are also commonly pushed out of big cities.
- 5e92cb50239222b 3y ago
  Because you really don't want heavily polluting industries (oil refineries, chemical plants, steel mills, etc) close to a big city.
  - justin66 3y ago
    Name a big city that doesn't have heavily polluting industries nearby.
    - irrational 3y ago
      Portland, Oregon?
      - justin66 3y ago
        I don't know why you'd pose that as a question, but not having been to Portland I did the obvious thing and spent a minute in google maps. You're welcome. It turns out Portland has a steel mill not just nearby, but within its city limits. At the risk of stating the obvious, the point of my question wasn't to literally determine whether any big cities exist without heavy industry nearby, although that would be sort of interesting if it were the case. The point is that any such city is going to be an exception to the utterly ludicrous statement of the OP, "Because you really don't want heavily polluting industries (oil refineries, chemical plants, steel mills, etc) close to a big city." Big cities have always had this. The people there do not "want" them there any more or less than people in a small town would "want" them there.
      - claudiulodro 3y ago
        Hopefully not too pedantic, but they do have Precision Castparts, which manufactures all sorts of aerospace, wind turbine, and other giant industrial things: https://www.opb.org/article/2022/03/02/court-approves-225-million-settlement-in-precision-castparts-air-pollution-lawsuit/ https://www.opb.org/article/2022/03/02/court-approves-225-mi...
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  Agriculture.
- kalleboo 3y ago
  Outsourcing some things can be an existential threat edit: Note that China just the other day extended their 9-dash line to a 10-dash line
- ThrowawayR2 3y ago
  It can but then they are heavily dependent on external sources of food, water, raw materials, manufactured products, etc. that are outside of its control. This gives the outside nations who are supplying those things larger influence on the domestic and foreign policy of the city-state because they can raise costs of imports or even embargo them to pressure the city-state to align with their own foreign policy goals.
- anigbrowl 3y ago
  Why aren't obese people healthy? they have so much (cellular) wealth stored up and such big organs. Ir's not that different. If you concentrate economic wealth in cites, the periphery starts to suffer economically because it can't exploit local resources effectively, and the population starts selecting for city activity. Over generations, that leaves you vulnerable agriculturally and militarily. If you experience a natural or military disaster that deals a massive blow to one of you key cities, the whole country can collapse.
dukeyukey 3y ago
> I think a country can not exist with just big cities Singapore is just a city. Hong Kong for a long time too. The Netherlands is functionally a very large low-density city with some high-density parts. And in some countries, like Saudi Arabia and the UAE, the small towns are economically non-existent compared to the cities.
- vincentkriek 3y ago
  I live in The Netherlands and it's not functionally a very large low density city. The main part of the country (de randstad [1]), but the rest isn't. And we need to pay to make sure there are facilities there, the government currently is just draining the natural resources and giving nothing in return. I don't know how a large country functions, but for the Netherlands there is a clear need to invest more in the rest of the country. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randstad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randstad
  - Cthulhu_ 3y ago
    I don't live in the Randstad but I'm sure in some years everything will have closed up. One thing I will say though is that the area outside of it - pick any direction - is idyllic and doesn't seem to be struggling economically. Loads of local businesses, loads of people just going about their day, buying houses, having kids, etc. It's idyllic and I don't really understand why all the activity seems to be in the Randstad. I mean I do get it, it's a chicken / egg problem; talent travels to the cities because that's where the best jobs are, the best jobs go to the cities because that's where talent is. But I would like the government to incentivize more "work where you live" schemes; smaller sattelite offices for larger employers, remote work (obviously), extra income and subsidies if you work remotely (because of reduced office costs and to discourage commuting, since our roads and railways are all full up).
    - CalRobert 3y ago
      I think part of the issue is that if you're a couple there's a huge advantage to being within commute distance from multiple cities.
zeroCalories 3y ago
No one is forcing small towns to stop existing. Young people just don't want to live in them. And yes, I do think they should get fewer facilities because they can't afford them. I'm sure every geriatric town would love a world class cancer treatment center, but they're gonna have to suck it up.
- skhr0680 3y ago
  > Young people just don't want to live in them. That's why the hometown tax exists. Small towns use their residence tax money to raise children then none goes back in when the young adult moves to Tokyo and pays residence tax there instead of in their hometown.
  - zeroCalories 3y ago
    Schools are funded by the national government in Japan. These families are not a net-loss on the community, as the parents pay taxes and children are a driver of economic activity.
    - kalleboo 3y ago
      Births are funded by local governments though
      - zeroCalories 3y ago
        Isn't that all covered by the national government and parent?
        innocenat 3y ago
        Contary to the name, Japan National Health Insurance is managed at municipal level.
        zeroCalories 3y ago
justin66 3y ago
> Small towns will always be more expensive than cities to maintain, this should not mean that small towns should then get less facilities. There are certain sorts of facilities which will almost never be available alongside small towns. It's not just "expensive" to maintain something like a Level 1 trauma center - if it were lightly utilized it would be economically unviable. It is something that will not exist away from a city. That's an extreme example but even more mundane medical facilities end up being very expensive when you push out into rural areas. That those areas tend to be economically depressed, at least in the US, makes the problem that much more serious.
sokoloff 3y ago
> Small towns will always be more expensive than cities to maintain, this should not mean that small towns should then get less facilities. Why not? I think it's a natural conclusion of that fact. Should every small town have a Tier 1 Hospital? A world-class university? A national sports team & stadium? An international airport? A symphony orchestra? Don't get me wrong, I grew up in a rural area and have a fondness for it, but I do expect that rural areas and small towns should reasonably have less facilities than major cities.
- uncletaco 3y ago
  > Should every small town have a Tier 1 Hospital? A world-class university? A national sports team & stadium? An international airport? A symphony orchestra? This almost describes Alabama.

irrational 3y ago

Why can a country not exist with just big cities?

johannes1234321 3y ago
Countries can exist with only big cities, but then they are dependant on other countries. In small cities you among other things have more agriculture and different forms of industry are also commonly pushed out of big cities.
5e92cb50239222b 3y ago
Because you really don't want heavily polluting industries (oil refineries, chemical plants, steel mills, etc) close to a big city.
- justin66 3y ago
  Name a big city that doesn't have heavily polluting industries nearby.
  - irrational 3y ago
    Portland, Oregon?
    - justin66 3y ago
      I don't know why you'd pose that as a question, but not having been to Portland I did the obvious thing and spent a minute in google maps. You're welcome. It turns out Portland has a steel mill not just nearby, but within its city limits. At the risk of stating the obvious, the point of my question wasn't to literally determine whether any big cities exist without heavy industry nearby, although that would be sort of interesting if it were the case. The point is that any such city is going to be an exception to the utterly ludicrous statement of the OP, "Because you really don't want heavily polluting industries (oil refineries, chemical plants, steel mills, etc) close to a big city." Big cities have always had this. The people there do not "want" them there any more or less than people in a small town would "want" them there.
    - claudiulodro 3y ago
      Hopefully not too pedantic, but they do have Precision Castparts, which manufactures all sorts of aerospace, wind turbine, and other giant industrial things: https://www.opb.org/article/2022/03/02/court-approves-225-million-settlement-in-precision-castparts-air-pollution-lawsuit/ https://www.opb.org/article/2022/03/02/court-approves-225-mi...
matheusmoreira 3y ago
Agriculture.
kalleboo 3y ago
Outsourcing some things can be an existential threat edit: Note that China just the other day extended their 9-dash line to a 10-dash line
ThrowawayR2 3y ago
It can but then they are heavily dependent on external sources of food, water, raw materials, manufactured products, etc. that are outside of its control. This gives the outside nations who are supplying those things larger influence on the domestic and foreign policy of the city-state because they can raise costs of imports or even embargo them to pressure the city-state to align with their own foreign policy goals.
anigbrowl 3y ago
Why aren't obese people healthy? they have so much (cellular) wealth stored up and such big organs. Ir's not that different. If you concentrate economic wealth in cites, the periphery starts to suffer economically because it can't exploit local resources effectively, and the population starts selecting for city activity. Over generations, that leaves you vulnerable agriculturally and militarily. If you experience a natural or military disaster that deals a massive blow to one of you key cities, the whole country can collapse.

dukeyukey 3y ago

> I think a country can not exist with just big cities Singapore is just a city. Hong Kong for a long time too. The Netherlands is functionally a very large low-density city with some high-density parts. And in some countries, like Saudi Arabia and the UAE, the small towns are economically non-existent compared to the cities.

vincentkriek 3y ago
I live in The Netherlands and it's not functionally a very large low density city. The main part of the country (de randstad [1]), but the rest isn't. And we need to pay to make sure there are facilities there, the government currently is just draining the natural resources and giving nothing in return. I don't know how a large country functions, but for the Netherlands there is a clear need to invest more in the rest of the country. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randstad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randstad
- Cthulhu_ 3y ago
  I don't live in the Randstad but I'm sure in some years everything will have closed up. One thing I will say though is that the area outside of it - pick any direction - is idyllic and doesn't seem to be struggling economically. Loads of local businesses, loads of people just going about their day, buying houses, having kids, etc. It's idyllic and I don't really understand why all the activity seems to be in the Randstad. I mean I do get it, it's a chicken / egg problem; talent travels to the cities because that's where the best jobs are, the best jobs go to the cities because that's where talent is. But I would like the government to incentivize more "work where you live" schemes; smaller sattelite offices for larger employers, remote work (obviously), extra income and subsidies if you work remotely (because of reduced office costs and to discourage commuting, since our roads and railways are all full up).
  - CalRobert 3y ago
    I think part of the issue is that if you're a couple there's a huge advantage to being within commute distance from multiple cities.

zeroCalories 3y ago

No one is forcing small towns to stop existing. Young people just don't want to live in them. And yes, I do think they should get fewer facilities because they can't afford them. I'm sure every geriatric town would love a world class cancer treatment center, but they're gonna have to suck it up.

skhr0680 3y ago
> Young people just don't want to live in them. That's why the hometown tax exists. Small towns use their residence tax money to raise children then none goes back in when the young adult moves to Tokyo and pays residence tax there instead of in their hometown.
- zeroCalories 3y ago
  Schools are funded by the national government in Japan. These families are not a net-loss on the community, as the parents pay taxes and children are a driver of economic activity.
  - kalleboo 3y ago
    Births are funded by local governments though
    - zeroCalories 3y ago
      Isn't that all covered by the national government and parent?
      - innocenat 3y ago
        Contary to the name, Japan National Health Insurance is managed at municipal level.
        zeroCalories 3y ago

justin66 3y ago

> Small towns will always be more expensive than cities to maintain, this should not mean that small towns should then get less facilities. There are certain sorts of facilities which will almost never be available alongside small towns. It's not just "expensive" to maintain something like a Level 1 trauma center - if it were lightly utilized it would be economically unviable. It is something that will not exist away from a city. That's an extreme example but even more mundane medical facilities end up being very expensive when you push out into rural areas. That those areas tend to be economically depressed, at least in the US, makes the problem that much more serious.

sokoloff 3y ago

> Small towns will always be more expensive than cities to maintain, this should not mean that small towns should then get less facilities. Why not? I think it's a natural conclusion of that fact. Should every small town have a Tier 1 Hospital? A world-class university? A national sports team & stadium? An international airport? A symphony orchestra? Don't get me wrong, I grew up in a rural area and have a fondness for it, but I do expect that rural areas and small towns should reasonably have less facilities than major cities.

uncletaco 3y ago
> Should every small town have a Tier 1 Hospital? A world-class university? A national sports team & stadium? An international airport? A symphony orchestra? This almost describes Alabama.