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Colorado peak linked to 1864 atrocity has been renamed Mount Blue Sky
- cft 3y agoSame thing was done by the Bolsheviks and French revolutionaries (regardless of the merit). French even renamed the calendar months, but then reverted on everything. Russians didn't revert. Let's see where this goes here.
- freitzkriesler2 3y agoEventually the Overton window shifts backwards. We've seen it with beer, movies, and other things. You push and push so much and then act surprised when there's a massive backlash — again regardless of merit?
- hooverd 3y agoEh, I don't see what's so woke about renaming a mountain to something other than after one-note governor.
- bilbo0s 3y agoI agree here, this whole "woke" term is being overused. And that's coming from someone who was thinking that wokeness infringed on free expression. Even the idea of "backlash" is overused if you're going to expect me to participate in a backlash against, say, stopping genocidal massacres. Or participate in a backlash against stopping slavery for instance. I mean Overton Windows be damned. If that's where you want to go, I can't follow. I thought anti-wokeness was about just championing free speech. Not championing oppression.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago> I thought anti-wokeness was about just championing free speech. Not championing oppression. Why did you think that? It has always been very clearly a reactionary backlash to changing cultural norms around racism and lgbtq visibility. The free speech thing was always the thinnest pretense. I honestly didn't think anyone even believed it in good faith. It's surprising and interesting to see someone admit they were taken in by it.
- giraffe_lady 3y agoThe backlashes aren't surprising they are predicted, in fact predictable. They're still bad, and the change is still good even if racists get mad about it. They'll get mad about something else, appeasing revanchists isn't the basis for any kind of useful policy.
- freitzkriesler2 3y agoThey've become emboldened and are winning. See target and Bud light. Bud light especially is at risk of losing shelf space which is a death kneel for a CPG company.
- giraffe_lady 3y agoYeah I know they're winning, idgaf about bud light tho. What do you want to do? Back off of changes that make them mad? That would also be them winning.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”
- croisillon 3y agoever heard of the metric system?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- justinator 3y agoI think this is more like calling something Mt. Kristallnacht and thinking that in poor taste, then renaming it something like, Mt. Viktor Frankl, honestly. We're not removing the fact that history happened, but we're stopping the celebration of terrible deeds.
- perihelions 3y ago- "Mount Blue Sky is the highest peak in the Mount Evans Wilderness..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Blue_Sky https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Blue_Sky Is this an oversight?
- angry_moose 3y agoProbably due to a jurisdictional mess. The article says the mountain was renamed by the US Board of Geographic Names (and possibly the Department of the Interior). Wilderness Areas seem to be managed by some combination of the National Park Service, US Forest Service, Fish and Wildlife, and Bureau of Land Management; and might require congress to get involved to rename it (Congress creates them, unclear whether they have to be involved to rename them). There's a whole mess of oddball things like this in Minnesota, which has been reverting a lot of things back to indigenous names. The weird conflicts are slowly getting sorted out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Wilderness_Preservation_System#Managing_agencies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Wilderness_Preservati... Edit: Yeah, I think its Congress. It required a bill to rename the Olympic Wilderness to the Daniel J. Evans Wilderness in 2016 (different "Evans"). https://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2016/dec/07/olympic-wilderness-re-named-sen-evans/ https://www.spokesman.com/blogs/outdoors/2016/dec/07/olympic...
- throw0101c 3y ago"Governing body: U.S. Forest Service" But: > The Mount Evans Wilderness is a U.S. Wilderness Area in Arapaho National Forest and Pike National Forest about 30 miles (48 km) west of Denver, Colorado. The wilderness area is named after Mount Evans.[2][3][a] * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Evans_Wilderness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Evans_Wilderness [a] In September 2023, Mount Evans was renamed to Mount Blue Sky.[4]
- Freak_NL 3y agoAlso the road leading up to the summit, state highway 5, the Mount Evans Highway.
- mcphage 3y agoThis seems like some pretty clear good news.
- davio 3y agoMount Blue Sky is one of the few 14ers you can drive up. It's not commercially owned like Pikes Peak. It's a cool trip if you're in the Denver area - remember to get reservations!
- buzzdenver 3y ago... next year, since it is closed for 2023
- davio 3y agoWe got heavy snow on the 4th of July one year. Had to push some cars to get them unstuck. I think people wound up spending the night in their cars.
- justinator 3y agoPikes Peaks isn't commercially owned - the highway is run by the city, so it's more like a city pool than anything. The Arapahoe name is, "Heey-otoyoo" meaning, "the Long Mountain" and "Tavakiev" in Numic meaning, "the Sun Mountain", which may be a more fitting name than "Pikes" who himself didn't summit and called the mountain, "unclimbable", even though the mountain certainly had seen people on it before he even know of its existence.
- justinator 3y agoHikers of the mountain are not unified in their support for the renaming: https://www.14ers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63361 https://www.14ers.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63361 "Why do we care so much about the opinions of people we conquered over a hundred years ago?"
- john020 3y ago[flagged]
- justinator 3y agoYour account is 6 minutes old and your only comment is this one.
- alphabettsy 3y agoJust flag and ignore.
- buzzdenver 3y agoI'd really like if 14ers.com had a thumbs up/down option for comments. A similar forum, letsrun.com, has an order of magnitude higher number of vile comments like this, but after the recent introduction of voting you see that something like this would has at least 90% thumbs downs and restore your faith in humanity a little bit.
- hooverd 3y agoApparently, if you rename a mountain to something other than after a guy who massacred Native Americans after lying to them they'd be safe, you're a "woketard" and a "total fruit". Enlightening stuff.
- DrThunder 3y agoAhh yes but the "indigenous" never killed eachother, raped, murdered etc. right? You realize holding a group of people up as idols that can do no wrong is just as de-humanizing and bigoted as calling them savages right? The idea that you should continuously look into the past and constantly change the names of things like it's actually going to make the past atrocity go away is pretty laughable.
- Workaccount2 3y agoNever heard of this incident before, so dived in and did some quick history-over-morning-coffee. Apparently a large group of Indians - men, women, children, were told they could safely settle in a designated area in the vicinity (~30 miles) of Fort Lyon. Then one day this guy Colonel John Chivington, rolled up with his cavalry regiment. Despite seeing the flags of "no hostility" and being approached by a known American liaison who had been living in the Indian camp (he basically told the liaison to fuck off), Chivington ordered his men to open fire on the Indians. They killed somewhere between 150 and 750 Indians. Two-thirds of which turned out to be women and children. It was pretty much just cold blooded murder, done on what was promised to be safe land. There was intense public outrage over the massacre, which led to congressional inquiry. Ultimately they found Chivington had acted "wrongly", but as far I as can tell, he was never charged with anything. He did resign from the military shortly afterwards though. It is also noted that he could never pursue his political aspirations, because the public had such a dim view of him.
- tivert 3y agoAlso, the namesake of this mountain was forced to resign over the incident: > Evans was forced to resign the governorship in 1865 for his role in instigating the Sand Creek massacre (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Evans_(Colorado_governor) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Evans_(Colorado_governor)) I'm kinda of surprised the mountain was named for him, given that. It looks like he only took office in 1862, but it looks like his daughter was married to a later governor, so maybe that had something to do with it. Though I'm still generally opposed to changing long-established names, because of the annoyance and confusion it causes (and will forever cause). Very, very few people even know or care about the person anything was named after.
- kibwen 3y ago> I'm kinda of surprised the mountain was named for him, given that. Consider that the largest military base in the United States was named in honor of a general of the CSA. On the other hand, he was generally regarded as an incompetent leader hated by his own men, and that "the losses suffered by Bragg's forces are cited as highly consequential to the ultimate defeat of the Confederacy", so maybe it makes sense why the Union would want to memorialize him...
- DrThunder 3y agoGood luck... whatever your opinion on this is I can guarantee you that most people will not be using the new name.
- buzzdenver 3y agoDo you still call is Mt Rosalie, since that was its original name? 20 years from now it'll be an obscure trivia question. Just like most people already call the neighborhood that used to be Stapleton, named after a KKK member, as Central Park. And it was renamed a couple of years ago, and Central Park is a dumb name...
- mcphage 3y agoPeople who have been using the old name for years? Yeah, probably—but then I still call sports stadiums by the names I first learned them as, as well as gas stations. Heck, a few years back I had to deliberately force myself to stop using the term "open apple key". But people who learn it for the first time will learn the new name, and official maps (etc) will all use the new name, and that's probably good enough.
- tivert 3y agoThe Sears Tower will always be the Sears Tower to me, no matter who the current owner is and who paid them for naming "rights." > But people who learn it for the first time will learn the new name, and official maps (etc) will all use the new name, and that's probably good enough. Not necessarily. If the community isn't invested in the name change, the old name can remain current and persist through natural transmission. In fact, the old name could become established as a way to separate the locals from tourists who learned a name from some outsider source like an official map. Another factor is how good the new name is. "Mount Blue Sky" is actually pretty good, as far as these imposed renamings go. A lot of the time they're totally impractical mouthfuls (e.g. https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/federal-government-renames-minnesota-lake-to-manidoons-zaagaigan-zhaawanong/ https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/federal-government-re...) that put contemporary English's orthographic sloppiness on full display.
- doodlebugging 3y agoIt's good that they have agreed to rename this popular peak to recognize the Cheyenne and Arapaho people who lived in that region. As usual, a little history lesson may help people understand what happened and why it was so contemptible to name this peak for someone who instigated such a heinous massacre of peaceful people. First I will post a first-hand account of the massacre from a letter written by a courageous officer who held his men back and did not participate in the slaughter, Captain Silas Soule [0]. As noted in the post above, Capt. Soule was murdered a few months after giving testimony against Col Chivington and others involved in the massacre. His murderer(s) though known, were never punished. One name you see mentioned in his letter is George Bent. George was the mixed race (Cheyenne mother/Anglo father) son of William Bent who along with his brother Charles and a French-Canadian trapper Ceran St. Vrain established Bent's Fort on the Santa Fe trail. [1] These men established a trading empire where anyone could procure supplies to outfit their expeditions whether they were Anglo, Mexican, or Native American. It was a frontier hub and the Bents were well-known all over the region. A little of George Bent's life is related in this link [2]. You can visit Bent's Fort today if you are in the area and it is worth the effort. Black Kettle, [3] the Southern Cheyenne chief who thought that he had negotiated a plan for his people to live in peace, escaped this massacre at Sand Creek only to die in the massacre of Southern Cheyenne people in Oklahoma at the Battle of the Washita River, or the Washita Massacre [4], conducted by Lt. Col. George A. Custer's 7th US Cavalry in 1868. This massacre of Black Kettle and his people followed by Custer's 1874 violation of the 1868 Treaty of Fort Laramie which established the protected area of the Black Hills in perpetuity where no whites could settle. These acts against the tribes kept Custer in native eyes as a sworn enemy and in 1876 when he was cornered with his men of the 7th Cavalry at the Greasy Grass [5] (known by Anglos as Little Bighorn [6]) in Montana, allowed the assembled tribes (Lakota Sioux, Northern Cheyenne, Arapaho) to take their revenge as they left no survivors from his troop. This was a fitting end for a narcissist who saw slaughtering Native Americans as an easy path to personal fame and fortune. One of the most disgusting things about the Sand Creek Massacre is mentioned in Soule's letter, the fact that the soldiers under Chivington spent the afternoon of the day of the massacre and the following day mutilating the bodies of those they had massacred and they wore those body parts proudly on their hats and belts as souvenirs when they paraded triumphantly through the streets on their return. This account gives a little more detail taken from survivor and witness accounts of the massacre and the aftermath. [7] The three-part series of which it is the second part fills in a lot of details about this event and is worth reading for context. Man's inhumanity to other men should not be commemorated by naming peaks after those who inspire or commit mass murder. Changing the name of this peak does not undo any of the terrible history but, in the same way that we do not name terrestrial features or streets after school shooters or other mass murderers, it may help put Evans and those inspired to violence by him back into the most fetid, rancid part of history's dustbin by erasing his name. The location of the Sand Creek Massacre was finally found and can be visited today [8]. It is near the town of Eads, Colorado, a area where years ago I briefly worked with a wheat-whacking crew. Since the original site was lost to history, it took a significant collaborative effort between the National Park Service and tribal historians to locate the site so that boundaries could be defined for it. This was completed between 1998-2000 and the National Historic Site designated in 2007.[9] [0] https://www.nps.gov/sand/learn/historyculture/the-life-of-silas-soule.htm https://www.nps.gov/sand/learn/historyculture/the-life-of-si... [1] https://www.nps.gov/beol/learn/historyculture/index.htm https://www.nps.gov/beol/learn/historyculture/index.htm [2] https://history.denverlibrary.org/colorado-biographies/george-bent-1843-1918 https://history.denverlibrary.org/colorado-biographies/georg... [3] https://history.denverlibrary.org/colorado-biographies/black-kettle-1807-1868 https://history.denverlibrary.org/colorado-biographies/black... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Washita_River https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Washita_River] [5] https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2020/06/the-battle-of-greasy-grass/ https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2020/06/the-battle-of-greasy-grass... [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Little_Bighorn https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Little_Bighorn [7] https://www.denverlibrary.org/blog/cultural-inclusivity-research/dodie/sand-creek-massacre https://www.denverlibrary.org/blog/cultural-inclusivity-rese... [8] https://www.nps.gov/sand/index.htm https://www.nps.gov/sand/index.htm [9] https://www.nps.gov/articles/searching-for-sand-creek.htm https://www.nps.gov/articles/searching-for-sand-creek.htm