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I don’t think that’s the main selling point of cloud? The main selling points are that (1) you can scale capacity up and down, so you aren’t purchasing, provisi

I don’t think that’s the main selling point of cloud? The main selling points are that (1) you can scale capacity up and down, so you aren’t purchasing, provisioning, and operating hardware for peak demand (2) with infra-as-code tooling, software teams can configure and deploy significant infrastructural capabilities without scaling specialized operations roles. Dumbness does not play into it.

sgarland 3y ago
IME, much of the “need to easily scale” is fixed by understanding your bottlenecks, being able to understand the metrics being captured, and how to address them. You would be shocked (or not) at how few people raised on cloud can explain what IOPS are, or what IOWAIT is, let alone linking the two up. Re: IaC, you definitely should understand what it is you’re instantiating (and why), no matter how you’re doing it. AWS Community TF Modules are all well and good until something breaks, and you realize you don’t really understand what’s going on.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  > how few people raised on cloud can explain what IOPS are I think you would be shocked at how few people raised in a fully on-prem world can adequately explain even that simple concept and its first-order implications.
  - sgarland 3y ago
    Thanks, I hate it.
  - garciasn 3y ago
    We did an analysis for a local data center leader on their SAN IOPS before we would sign on and they asked if they could have the results because they'd never done it. I was utterly shocked. Not only because they hadn't done it but that NO ONE ELSE had ever asked and/or done it either. Literal insanity.
vidarh 3y ago
My experience in doing devops on contract for years, though, is that what instead happens is that a bunch of different teams scale things up beyond what they need, don't take things down again, and nobody understands which servers are actually needed or why they're being billed what. There's good money to be made in just helping companies figuring out their cloud billing. I also don't for a second agree that software teams can deploy significant capabilities without specialised ops roles - if anything my consulting showed me the clients I had that deployed to clouds needed far more help on average. It may be a selling point, but it's a fiction. And almost every single colo-provider and managed hosting provider these days also provides cloud services, so you can lease servers or racks, and get cloud instances often in the same data centre tied into your network if you suddenly need to handle a spike. As a result, you can typically load your managed servers far higher today than you used to be able to.

sgarland 3y ago

IME, much of the “need to easily scale” is fixed by understanding your bottlenecks, being able to understand the metrics being captured, and how to address them. You would be shocked (or not) at how few people raised on cloud can explain what IOPS are, or what IOWAIT is, let alone linking the two up. Re: IaC, you definitely should understand what it is you’re instantiating (and why), no matter how you’re doing it. AWS Community TF Modules are all well and good until something breaks, and you realize you don’t really understand what’s going on.

sokoloff 3y ago
> how few people raised on cloud can explain what IOPS are I think you would be shocked at how few people raised in a fully on-prem world can adequately explain even that simple concept and its first-order implications.
- sgarland 3y ago
  Thanks, I hate it.
- garciasn 3y ago
  We did an analysis for a local data center leader on their SAN IOPS before we would sign on and they asked if they could have the results because they'd never done it. I was utterly shocked. Not only because they hadn't done it but that NO ONE ELSE had ever asked and/or done it either. Literal insanity.

vidarh 3y ago

My experience in doing devops on contract for years, though, is that what instead happens is that a bunch of different teams scale things up beyond what they need, don't take things down again, and nobody understands which servers are actually needed or why they're being billed what. There's good money to be made in just helping companies figuring out their cloud billing. I also don't for a second agree that software teams can deploy significant capabilities without specialised ops roles - if anything my consulting showed me the clients I had that deployed to clouds needed far more help on average. It may be a selling point, but it's a fiction. And almost every single colo-provider and managed hosting provider these days also provides cloud services, so you can lease servers or racks, and get cloud instances often in the same data centre tied into your network if you suddenly need to handle a spike. As a result, you can typically load your managed servers far higher today than you used to be able to.