5 ms·

You are right and like you explained this is trivially easily fixed by autosaving regularly. What I have trouble imagining is people working with documents on

You are right and like you explained this is trivially easily fixed by autosaving regularly. What I have trouble imagining is people working with documents on computers for more than a few years yet somehow failing to develop the Always Save Instinct. I regularly catch myself saving unreasonably often.

josephg 3y ago
Users shouldn’t ever need to adapt to computer crashes like this. Software should always auto save or have recovery files or something. As a principle, software should hold anything a user inputs with reverence.
- SanderNL 3y ago
  I agree. Maybe as a dev I've become cynical and don't trust anything. Least of all some app holding my document. Makes me think of the "Voting software" xkcd: https://xkcd.com/2030 https://xkcd.com/2030 "I don't quite know how to put this, but our entire field is bad at what we do, and if you rely on us, everyone will die."
  - belenos46 3y ago
    You think that's cynical? I must be some avatar curmudgeonliness then. I'm pretty sure that what's actually going on is that everything we think of as a 'profession' is that way, and that people are in fact dying because of it. The difference is that devs are honest about it.
- mixmastamyk 3y ago
  Yes, however you have to be sure every single program across decades is written with those rules in mind. Hard on any OS, but a lost cause on */Linux.
chrisshroba 3y ago
I used to have that instinct but lost it in the age of auto save. The applications (web or native) I use most often all do it for me: Google docs, Dropbox paper, notion, vscode. I don’t think I’m alone in this!
- dsego 3y ago
  I actually tried using open/libre docs a few years ago just because of it being open source. I was trying to make a point of using locally installed software and avoid google products. Then the thing crashed and I lost an hour of work because it didn't save a temporary version. That's when I gave up on it for good.
  - olddustytrail 3y ago
    Libre office does keep a temporary version that allows you to recover, so you're talking crap.
    - dsego 3y ago
      It might very well keep it, but either that behavior wasn't turned on by default or it crashed in way where it wasn't recoverable. I know I lost work.
      - mixmastamyk 3y ago
        Doesn't need to be turned on. However it's always possible you mistakenly pressed Esc/Close, didn't read the dialog, or hit a very obscure bug? However this has worked well for twenty years, so PEBKAC is a reasonable conclusion.
dsego 3y ago
That may have been true years ago in win 95 or xp days. The modern paradigm starting with google docs is that things are automatically saved and even always sharable through the cloud, making manual saving actually an atavistic leftover of a bygone era.
- iggldiggl 3y ago
  What if I actually don't want any changes saved because I've only opened a document for reference purposes?
  - ReactiveJelly 3y ago
    Have a "Read-only" checkbox. For the love of God, have a "read-only" checkbox.
  - ghkbrew 3y ago
    Then you proactively prevent changes. Either "open a copy" or "open in readonly mode". If you make saving the default you have to manually not save. It's a trade off versus default no saves with manual saves
  - NavinF 3y ago
    Modern apps like gdocs have a toggle for switching between read-only, suggest changes, and editing. If you forgot to toggle, you can just open version history and revert. MS Office also had version history for nearly a decade.

josephg 3y ago

Users shouldn’t ever need to adapt to computer crashes like this. Software should always auto save or have recovery files or something. As a principle, software should hold anything a user inputs with reverence.

SanderNL 3y ago
I agree. Maybe as a dev I've become cynical and don't trust anything. Least of all some app holding my document. Makes me think of the "Voting software" xkcd: https://xkcd.com/2030 https://xkcd.com/2030 "I don't quite know how to put this, but our entire field is bad at what we do, and if you rely on us, everyone will die."
- belenos46 3y ago
  You think that's cynical? I must be some avatar curmudgeonliness then. I'm pretty sure that what's actually going on is that everything we think of as a 'profession' is that way, and that people are in fact dying because of it. The difference is that devs are honest about it.
mixmastamyk 3y ago
Yes, however you have to be sure every single program across decades is written with those rules in mind. Hard on any OS, but a lost cause on */Linux.

chrisshroba 3y ago

I used to have that instinct but lost it in the age of auto save. The applications (web or native) I use most often all do it for me: Google docs, Dropbox paper, notion, vscode. I don’t think I’m alone in this!

dsego 3y ago
I actually tried using open/libre docs a few years ago just because of it being open source. I was trying to make a point of using locally installed software and avoid google products. Then the thing crashed and I lost an hour of work because it didn't save a temporary version. That's when I gave up on it for good.
- olddustytrail 3y ago
  Libre office does keep a temporary version that allows you to recover, so you're talking crap.
  - dsego 3y ago
    It might very well keep it, but either that behavior wasn't turned on by default or it crashed in way where it wasn't recoverable. I know I lost work.
    - mixmastamyk 3y ago
      Doesn't need to be turned on. However it's always possible you mistakenly pressed Esc/Close, didn't read the dialog, or hit a very obscure bug? However this has worked well for twenty years, so PEBKAC is a reasonable conclusion.

dsego 3y ago

That may have been true years ago in win 95 or xp days. The modern paradigm starting with google docs is that things are automatically saved and even always sharable through the cloud, making manual saving actually an atavistic leftover of a bygone era.

iggldiggl 3y ago
What if I actually don't want any changes saved because I've only opened a document for reference purposes?
- ReactiveJelly 3y ago
  Have a "Read-only" checkbox. For the love of God, have a "read-only" checkbox.
- ghkbrew 3y ago
  Then you proactively prevent changes. Either "open a copy" or "open in readonly mode". If you make saving the default you have to manually not save. It's a trade off versus default no saves with manual saves
- NavinF 3y ago
  Modern apps like gdocs have a toggle for switching between read-only, suggest changes, and editing. If you forgot to toggle, you can just open version history and revert. MS Office also had version history for nearly a decade.