4 ms·

People do it in parts of the world, generally referred to as 'subsistence farming' and not considered a desirable situation I think it's really awesome for peo

People do it in parts of the world, generally referred to as 'subsistence farming' and not considered a desirable situation I think it's really awesome for people to grow their own food but at the same time we need to have our eyes open - industrial ag is the backbone of our civilization, our way of life, and our freedom to do anything else with our time is dependent on it. There are home gardeners out there who tout how much of their food they grow but curiously never seem to address that the bulk of their calories come from your industrial staple grains and starches.

fragmede 3y ago
Growing food is more sustainable, but if I can just 50 years worth of rice and beans or MREs, do I need a sustainable solution?
- bemmu 3y ago
  Out of curiosity, is there something one can store that would last 40 years (guesstimate of my remaining lifespan) while still tasting good so that I would actually eat it? I've had boxes of emergency rations (add hot water to get some rice meal) in our house, but they usually just advertise lasting for just a few years.
  - RetroTechie 3y ago
    I've had some fun trying over-date packaged foods a few years back. Regular store bought stuff. Personal record: a >25y old can of fruit cocktail - still edible. Conclusions: For dry / packaged goods (dried beans, lentils, pasta, rice, spices, toast, etc) you can basically ignore the best-before date. Sugar (or -syrups, honey) & salt keep indefinitely. 'Wet' stuff, as long as sealed hermetically (like canned goods, shelf-stable drinks etc): similar. Seal broken: all bets are off. Use eyes / nose / texture as indicator, or don't risk it. Long storage of these isn't a safe-to-eat, but a quality issue. Taste, sometimes texture, and vitamin / nutritional value deteriorates over time. 'Wet' stuff generally faster. Up to a point where you're left with tasteless calories with 0 vitamin content (but still safe to eat!). Also: say you have 5y worth of food stored. Then you'd need to replace that vast amount of food semi-regularly (like use 1y worth, give away & replace the rest), which is very costly. Or consume everything yourself (FIFO). In which case a 5y's worth store would mean eating -on average- 5y old food. Not to mention the cost/waste if that supply is somehow lost (flooding, housefire, bugs, rodents, whatever). Imho a 1 month up to 1 or 2y supply is a better compromise. Modest space/$ investment & most stuffs can be eaten within their BB date. But enough for peace of mind or ride out a wave of economic / social mayhem. Add some vitamin pills if you're worried about fresh fruits/veggies remaining available. I've grown my own food at times. And imho substinence farming is underrated. But as a hedge against catastrophy? No. Do it for fun, do it if you have a large garden & like your independence. Or prefer the organic-everything & knowing where your food comes from. Otherwise just buy food in bulk & stuff it in cellar (or wherever).
    - mbg721 3y ago
      Stuart Ashen (ashens) has a YouTube channel that ventures into trying expired packaged food. In practice, it appears that sugary things do not keep indefinitely, though that might be because the packaging isn't designed to last decades.
- freitzkriesler2 3y ago
  Have you tried living on beans and rice or god forbid MREs for any length of time? The MREs in particular as a sole food source is a punishment I wouldnt wish on anyone. I don't know how they do it but those things ruins your body.
Grimburger 3y ago
People could grow their own starches but it's painfully hard to justify when you can buy them for $1/kg at the store.
- GoToRO 3y ago
  Taste.
  - Grimburger 3y ago
    Can understand doing it for environment/sustainable/prepper reasons but do homegrown potatoes really taste better? Have grown my own on a hobbyist level and they tasted the same
    - GoToRO 3y ago
      I only did it this year. If you grow your own, then you can select seeds that are not comercially viable but they will be way tastier. A commercial farmer will ditch any seed for another one that yealds 5% more production. You don't have to. I got some potatoes from the local market, from a region that traditionally is planting a lot of them. These were the best potatoes I had in a long time. They were more yellow in color, much denser and tastier. I also got some tomatoes that were quite big, softer meat and very good taste. These kinds of tomatoes can not be sold in big retail chains because they are easily damaged by transport (soft skin). I saw a documentary about seeds. A french lady was beeing harassed by different french institutions because she was mailing traditional plant seeds to people. In Romania there are still people that use their own seeds but we also have people buying the same seeds that comercial farmers use. In this case the produce will taste more or less the same like the ones from the big stores. PS: I forgot to mention, my potatoes had deep "eyes" (roots) inside them. This means that they can not be peeled with a machine in a factory. They are not comercially viable.

fragmede 3y ago

Growing food is more sustainable, but if I can just 50 years worth of rice and beans or MREs, do I need a sustainable solution?

bemmu 3y ago
Out of curiosity, is there something one can store that would last 40 years (guesstimate of my remaining lifespan) while still tasting good so that I would actually eat it? I've had boxes of emergency rations (add hot water to get some rice meal) in our house, but they usually just advertise lasting for just a few years.
- RetroTechie 3y ago
  I've had some fun trying over-date packaged foods a few years back. Regular store bought stuff. Personal record: a >25y old can of fruit cocktail - still edible. Conclusions: For dry / packaged goods (dried beans, lentils, pasta, rice, spices, toast, etc) you can basically ignore the best-before date. Sugar (or -syrups, honey) & salt keep indefinitely. 'Wet' stuff, as long as sealed hermetically (like canned goods, shelf-stable drinks etc): similar. Seal broken: all bets are off. Use eyes / nose / texture as indicator, or don't risk it. Long storage of these isn't a safe-to-eat, but a quality issue. Taste, sometimes texture, and vitamin / nutritional value deteriorates over time. 'Wet' stuff generally faster. Up to a point where you're left with tasteless calories with 0 vitamin content (but still safe to eat!). Also: say you have 5y worth of food stored. Then you'd need to replace that vast amount of food semi-regularly (like use 1y worth, give away & replace the rest), which is very costly. Or consume everything yourself (FIFO). In which case a 5y's worth store would mean eating -on average- 5y old food. Not to mention the cost/waste if that supply is somehow lost (flooding, housefire, bugs, rodents, whatever). Imho a 1 month up to 1 or 2y supply is a better compromise. Modest space/$ investment & most stuffs can be eaten within their BB date. But enough for peace of mind or ride out a wave of economic / social mayhem. Add some vitamin pills if you're worried about fresh fruits/veggies remaining available. I've grown my own food at times. And imho substinence farming is underrated. But as a hedge against catastrophy? No. Do it for fun, do it if you have a large garden & like your independence. Or prefer the organic-everything & knowing where your food comes from. Otherwise just buy food in bulk & stuff it in cellar (or wherever).
  - mbg721 3y ago
    Stuart Ashen (ashens) has a YouTube channel that ventures into trying expired packaged food. In practice, it appears that sugary things do not keep indefinitely, though that might be because the packaging isn't designed to last decades.
freitzkriesler2 3y ago
Have you tried living on beans and rice or god forbid MREs for any length of time? The MREs in particular as a sole food source is a punishment I wouldnt wish on anyone. I don't know how they do it but those things ruins your body.

Grimburger 3y ago

People could grow their own starches but it's painfully hard to justify when you can buy them for $1/kg at the store.

GoToRO 3y ago
Taste.
- Grimburger 3y ago
  Can understand doing it for environment/sustainable/prepper reasons but do homegrown potatoes really taste better? Have grown my own on a hobbyist level and they tasted the same
  - GoToRO 3y ago
    I only did it this year. If you grow your own, then you can select seeds that are not comercially viable but they will be way tastier. A commercial farmer will ditch any seed for another one that yealds 5% more production. You don't have to. I got some potatoes from the local market, from a region that traditionally is planting a lot of them. These were the best potatoes I had in a long time. They were more yellow in color, much denser and tastier. I also got some tomatoes that were quite big, softer meat and very good taste. These kinds of tomatoes can not be sold in big retail chains because they are easily damaged by transport (soft skin). I saw a documentary about seeds. A french lady was beeing harassed by different french institutions because she was mailing traditional plant seeds to people. In Romania there are still people that use their own seeds but we also have people buying the same seeds that comercial farmers use. In this case the produce will taste more or less the same like the ones from the big stores. PS: I forgot to mention, my potatoes had deep "eyes" (roots) inside them. This means that they can not be peeled with a machine in a factory. They are not comercially viable.