7 ms·

This hit hard: The one sentence that will convince you to return/skip the iPad

• beza1e1 15y ago
  Citation needed! Who wrote that sentence?
• fufulabs 15y ago
  ---bluetooth keyboard > Pages, email, blogging. ---Garageband > music ---Camera > Photos, video, photo editing ---Painting apps > art, sketches, wireframing ---Internet > anything Super turbo false.
  • Ravenlock 15y ago
    Serious question - is there any good way to record and edit podcasts on the iPad? That was the primary reason I went with a laptop rather than an iPad as my last tech purchase.
    • maguay 15y ago
      Actually, Garage Band isn't half bad for recording and light-editing audio.
  • lucb1e 15y ago
    You can hardly write on the thing, just like with other mobile devices. Sketching or making notes would be the only option. Sure, technically you can write novel after novel on it. It just doesn't write nicely.
    • Jacked 15y ago
      Hence the bluetooth keyboard as the first thing on his list ;)
      • lucb1e 15y ago
        Then, why don't you just get a laptop? Or slate?
    • maguay 15y ago
      Comically, I personally prefer typing on an iPad in the car over typing on a laptop. The on-screen keyboard definitely works for me.
• stevear 15y ago
  So is a book.
• deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
• locusm 15y ago
  We have the iPad 1 and it is the most fought over device in the house. Kids make the most use of it - games, Khan Academy, Plex client, music etc Wife reads email, reads her fave sites, Skype etc I occasionally game on it, but mostly checking twitter from bed or browsing motorcycle sites. Never has there been a device in my household that so universally satisfies everyone's needs from a 5 year old girl to a 42 year old bloke. I couldn't really give a toss if I can produce anything on it or not.
• guywithabike 15y ago
  The problem isn't the iPad, the problem is probably you. There's nothing stopping you from "creating" with an iPad.
  • poppysan 15y ago
    I'd be interested in hearing what if anything current iPad owners produce.
    • chromatic 15y ago
      Revenue.
      • poppysan 15y ago
        ok... how?
        • chromatic 15y ago
          One of my family members owns an iPad, and Apple seems to have optimized the entire experience to buy from the app store.
    • hakunin 15y ago
      I actually love quick-prototyping music in garage band. Dream come true when it comes to bringing music from your head to life in a matter of minutes, well arranged, with nothing but iPad. It's the music sketch book I always craved.
    • qckbrnfx 15y ago
      I do some programming on mine by SSHing into my main machine via Prompt. And I do some writing on it, too. A Bluetooth keyboard makes these activities just as easy as on a full fledged computer and it is nice to be able to roll over in bed and turn on the iPad when inspiration strikes.
      • 15y ago
• coryl 15y ago
  Well you should probably define what you mean by "producing". What do you expect to be able to produce? More code work? Art work? Photography? Blog posts and articles? Without an iPad, I wouldn't understand touch interface design and UX. I probably wouldn't have read Steve Jobs biography, or Mark Cuban's ebook. But I did, and they inspired me to create. I successfully learned to program through Xcode and my iPad, because making something that you can touch right before your eyes is amazingly delightful and encouraging. Sometimes I read fantastic articles on Flipboard, or HN, and I get great ideas. Sometimes the first thing I do in the morning is check my app sales from the day before while in bed. I look at my sales graph and rankings. Regardless of whether the number is good or bad, my brain starts firing off on how I can do better, or why such and such is happening. All these things inherently require me to consume, but lead to some form of productivity. Most HN'ers don't channel surf or watch TV for the sake of killing time. We're productivity freaks, so we only watch things we're really interested in, or things we think we can learn from. Consumption on the iPad seems to be exactly the same.
• keeeeeeeeen 15y ago
  Well, I'd say building consumption apps is much easier than building an app for producing things, particularly when dealing with resource-constrained devices. It's really only a matter of time for developers to really figure out how to work with iOS and to make apps for 'making things'. Keep in mind that the iPad hasn't been around for all that long.
• glenra 15y ago
  GarageBand for the iPad has some features as-yet unmatched on the Mac, so it's helped me create songs. (In fact, that was why I bought it). You can also use it to read documentation while programming on your main mac; you can even use it as a second monitor just to have more screen real estate on your mac. There are decent apps for writing and editing photos and painting and many other creative projects. I think the idea that it's "for consumption" is just lazy/silly thinking. If you want to create on it, buy apps used to create stuff, or write your own apps.
• ertdfgcb 15y ago
  Consumption is not useless. Yes, the iPad is purely for consumption, but if that consumption improves you as a person/programmer/whatever, it is not useless. You state that "by getting the iPad, you'll spend more time consuming and less time producing", but I think that's a fallacy, if you remember that iPad time is consumption time, it can be very valuable. It is also important to remember that much of that time may be time that you never would have spent producing anyway (lying in bed, riding the bus, whatever). If you think your iPad is destroying your productivity, then sure, return it, but remember that the iPad is very good for consuming things, and in order to produce, you must consume. Don't discount the role consumption has in production (great artists steal and all that).
  • kisom 15y ago
    I use my iPad heavily for consuming (books, movies, etc...) include watching videos for the Stanford classes I'm doing. I use my laptop to create. The two work harmoniously - I can consume (i.e. I have a copy of The C Programming language on the iPad) while creating to feed the cycle. Works well for me.
• dmishe 15y ago
  >books & iTunesU >useless pick one
• davidu 15y ago
  That we have become a consumer culture concerns me greatly. That said, if people switch from consuming via TV which is entirely one-way, and switch to a consumption medium like the iPad that is two-way, that's a revolution. The iPad is a revolution, and as entrepreneurs and developers, we should be aware of how it's changing the world around us. But it's not a replacement for building, hacking, making and tinkering, but chances are, you aren't prone to forgetting that since you're reading this website.
  • notJim 15y ago
    > That we have become a consumer culture concerns me greatly. I'm really skeptical that this is actually true. The hardware to produce things has gotten cheaper (computers, video/sound equipment), the knowledge is more easily and readily disseminated (tutorials online, videos on youtube, forums for specialized interests), and it's become easier to share things (uploading to vimeo and then posting to reddit.) It seems to me like it's even easier to “produce” than ever before, and that more people are doing it.
    • jeremyflores 15y ago
      The iPad hardware itself speaks toward a consumer culture. We have a cultural obsolescence for their older devices: who even talks about iPad 1 or iPad 2 nowadays when there is iPad 3?
      • maguay 15y ago
        I'm still rather pleased with my iPad 1, and use it as my on-the-go computer for trips about once a month. And that's for real work: writing and editing articles, managing a team, and doing app support and random email. And yup, an iPad 1.
    • davidu 15y ago
      Social sharing is not producing. With unlimited storage, space, etc. there is no encouragement to focus on quality either. That's another topic.
  • 15y ago
• amayne 15y ago
  I wrote my first novel on my iPad. Got a lit agent a few months later from it. The consumption thing is bogus.
  • syaz1 15y ago
    > I wrote my first novel on my iPad. But why? Wouldn't it be much more convenient to write on a laptop/PC with proper tools? How does one write more than a few sentences on an iPad? Don't tell me STT...
    • manicdee 15y ago
      You get an editor app, and you start typing. There are apps which specialise in writing novels: they have special sections for writing character descriptions, plot ideas, etc. A PC is convenient if you have the time to sit down in front of it. An iPad is great when you want to write on the bus or train, where a laptop is inconvenient and a PC is flat out impossible.
• hundchenkatze 15y ago
  This is the very reason I haven't gotten one, or any tablet for that matter. I've had access to my roommate's iPad 2 since day one, but I've never found a good reason to use it.
• TheBiv 15y ago
  Skip? Meh...For those who wish to segment their lives into producing devices (Mac/PC) and consuming devices (iPad/Kindle) then it is actually a perfect fit! I do understand the sentiment that your friend is providing by pointing out that your probability to become another consumer rather than a producer with the device in tow is a valid point!
  • manicdee 15y ago
    Being a consumer or producer is going to be determined by whether you have an iPad or not? Really? Having a PC means you have all those computer games waiting to distract you. PC and TVs are brain killers. The iPad is a brain nurturing device.
• damian2000 15y ago
  So just buy and iPad and throw out your TV... assuming you have a TV that is ... ;-)
  • rimantas 15y ago
    Don't forget your books too. The same assumption applies :)
• lpnotes 15y ago
  I would agree -- except for the fact that as a musician, I've benefited tremendously from the recording apps that have allowed me to produce multitrack songs, record scenery as background for my videos, and edit it all together in iMovie (a program that I don't have access to on a PC). I will need to get rid of that netflix app, though. ;)
• codezero 15y ago
  Most YC users are consuming links here, not producing... so yeah. Also, consuming on the iPad is a completely legitimate way to stimulate yourself into producing.
• WiseWeasel 15y ago
  You can have both an iPad for sit-back consumption and a computer for productive creation. As a consumption device, the iPad is tough to beat, for those who don't have to be producing output at every waking moment. Sometimes, you want to ingest information, and an iPad is a very effective way to do that.
• ddw 15y ago
  Tablets to me are just an easier way to check status updates and feeds, ie things I'm trying to get away from. They even favor laying down while doing it! I'm constantly confronted with similar questions: should I watch this game on TV or spend the next two hours learning or making something, even if it turns out ultimately to be a failure? I'm getting better everyday at choosing the later.
• vibrunazo 15y ago
  It's only primarily a consumption device because there's not enough devs building production apps for tablets. Which is why I bought one in the first place. We're working on production tools that we'll use ourselves and which are designed for tablets. Summary: Don't like it? Hack it better :)
• haberman 15y ago
  What you say is more obviously true of a Kindle, but that doesn't mean that owning a Kindle makes you produce less overall. It just changes the way that you do consume when you choose to do so.
• deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
• nakkiel 15y ago
  Well, your friend got that right but why didn't you get that before? When I bought my Xoom tablet, I had in mind two things: a. it would do a great remote control device for a headless and home-made music player (plugged to a decent sound-system), b. I need to rest. While a. was definitely the fun factor for me, b. was a way for me to stop bringing work home so easily. With a tablet, you can consume most of the stuff you would with a laptop but as you can't produce, you're not tempted to start working on cool-new-interesting-project-2315. Mixed results so far as I still often bring my laptop home from work. Also, a. didn't go that far (because of b. ? [1]). [1] Ah well, contradictions.
• deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
• carrot 15y ago
  Well, that is Apple's end game for the iPad after all. The same goes for Amazon and its Kindle family of devices. Whether we like it or not, the iPad and other similar devices are media consumption devices by design. You really should have known that before you bought it. Anyway, you do have the choice of either returning it or simply keeping it and making the most out of it. And that is by focusing on its strengths and basically everything that it does right.
• njharman 15y ago
  It is far from consumption only. I do; Tons of email, all my note taking, use story boarding and notecard apps to outline projects, banking and investment, participating in online forums aka & reddit Also, consumption is great. If you consume good things. Lately been watching pycon videos, reading hn, learning chef, aws research, and wiki tangents on sub atomic particles and german east Africa in wwi. iPad fucking rocks. Everyone should have a tablet of some sort.
• bobbypage 15y ago
  Do some iOS dev and this will no longer be a problem.
• nico_h 15y ago
  Figure out what you want to be doing and see if the ipad fits in it. Some creative things are more easily done on an iPad than a computer: I use the Adobe ideas app (which has the most fluid 'ink') and a heavy stylus for creating sketches. Penultimate is quite useful to organize UI sketches. Also PDF annotation on the iPad is easier to do than on my mac (with a stylus). With (and without) an external keyboard, I use plaintext to take notes and taskpaper to manage todos. Lighter and less obtrusive than a full blown laptop. You can also use iPhoto, iMovie, Pages, Number, Keynote, and there are many stop motion animation apps. Maybe it is better for you to return it and use the money for buying a new laptop, hacksaw or a 3d printer (or sewing kit). It is up to you.
• adrinavarro 15y ago
  True and false. The iPad is inherently bad for producing, as most touch devices are (hm, iPhone, most Androids…?). Most touch devices and their interfaces make curating and consuming a very good experience, but producing is really hard (unless posting photos and short texts frequently is producing… and still, that's a new way of producing content we hadn't before). And if you count curating as production, then, you're still producing. I overall don't think it's as bad as it looks, you're still going to produce when there is the need to… Or keep curating and doing small production the rest of the time.
• mahyarm 15y ago
  It also makes an awesome skype/facetime video phone.
• notJim 15y ago
  I do a lot of consuming: I watch a few TV shows, read Hacker News, proggit, and read books. Are you really advocating that we shouldn't consume anything at all? To me, the reason I'm considering returning the iPad is that it's nothing more than a luxury computing device. Sure, it's kind of convenient in some ways (small and light), but in other ways, it's totally a drag (iOS is underwhelming, the lack of keyboard.) I like reading on it a lot, but then, the stuff I read on it is really just websites, and I don't feel like I need a dedicated device for that.
• richardw 15y ago
  One reason why I like having (some) new widgets is that they change how I think about what is possible. You could not have figured out modern phones while plugging away with your old Nokia. Some devices help you see the future, and for me, my ideas are certainly affected by the technology I use. Many apps are productive in nature - notes, reminders, stock trading etc. Kindle is very useful even if it's consumptive. Reading is consumptive, but also productive in the sense of 'doing something useful'. Besides, if you're away from your computer, aching to produce and you only have an iPad...write down what would help and make an app for that.
• manicdee 15y ago
  I carrying all my reference books, component data sheets and circuit schematics on the iPad. I carry pictures, presentations, citation lists, bibliographies, research notes, and even program a little Perl or Python on the side. Am I a consumer? Is the iPad bad for me because it only allows me to "consume" my data sheets? Have you thought about replacing "consume" with other verbs such as "read," "listen," or "watch"? Books are not consumed. They are read. When you have read a book, it is still there, waiting to be read again. People who talk about "consuming" books are idiots: people who are wilfully ignorant despite the wealth of information available to counter their opinion. Your friend is an idiot. The idea that the iPad is a consumption only device is nonsense: http://marklindner.info/blog/2010/03/28/is-the-ipad-a-consumption-only-device/ http://marklindner.info/blog/2010/03/28/is-the-ipad-a-consum... Note the date on that blog post: this argument has been done already, and is at least two years old. Is it wrong to buy books because books are "read only" devices? Is the iPad bad for me because it allows me to carry all my reference manuals (in dead tree form, about 50-100kg of paper) and data sheets in my backpack? I have annotations in my books which reference various Internet resources, or include comments about trouble I've had getting some circuits to work. How would I annotate a book if the iPad was a "consumption only device"? Learn to think for yourself and be a real entrepreneur, rather than pretending to be an entrepreneur and letting other people tell you what to think. Your faith in yourself must come from inside, not outside.
• 6ren 15y ago
  The "new iPad" keynote highlighted that you could shoot, edit, view and upload HD movies, explicitly saying that this countered the conception of the iPad as for consuming. That is, provided you're producing movies (or probably other multimedia). But maybe one day for programming too: Programmers will stop editing character arrays, realizing that character arrays are not a convenient representation of code (neither for computers nor for humans). Fueled by touchscreens." http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4487#comment-69882 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4487#comment-69882
• BerislavLopac 15y ago
  Tablets are weapons of mass distraction.
• cheald 15y ago
  I've been echoing this for a while. The iPad is a stellar content consumption device. If you just want to read email and watch YouTube and see pictures of the grandkids, the iPad is a fully-functional computing device, insofar as you need one. It is a truly abysmal creation device, though. Typing on it is slower than on a physical keyboard. You can't switch between apps very easily, so doing anything where you'd have to reference or copy information is greatly hindered. If you want to use "non-visible" keystrokes (like control or win/cmd), it's a non-starter. The OS is heavily locked down and so divorced from the concept of "processes" and "files" that it is designed to not simply hide the internals, but to actively deny that they exist. While it's possible to create with it, it's absolutely the wrong tool for it. The hacker ethos is adamant about using the right tools for the job. Using the iPad as a creation platform (with, perhaps, the sole exception of a finger-painting device) is akin to using a pair of scissors like a bandsaw. You can get it done, maybe, after a lot of work and a lot of pain, but it's the wrong tool for the job. I really appreciate how usable the iPad is as a device for people who simply want to consume content. But, I think that to treat it as the "next generation of computing" (see also: the "post-PC era") does a tremendous disservice to our industry, our children, and our society as a whole. Breeding out curiosity and penalizing the tinkerer is not a good thing. I am a programmer because my computer is my artist's canvas - code is the medium with which I paint. It is a deeply creative, deeply engaging, deeply expressive device for me. The iPad is not - and by design, cannot be. It's a fantastic device for consuming content, but if you're going to sign up with the iPad, you're going to have to sign up to the consumer-oriented culture it is infused with. That'll be $0.99. Please don't peek behind the curtain. Edit: Because I'm sure it'll be brought up, don't confuse creating content for the iPad (with your full-fledged Mac computer) with creating content on the iPad. The former is, of course, happening all the time, and that's great. But unless you're buying the device plus the $99 developer's license to be able to program it, you're not buying a "production" device.
  • peterwiese 15y ago
    i don't really get this. we're not only in an age of consumer-orientated devices, which is great, but also in an age of such wealth and technological progress, that we have specialized machines serving different, specialized purposes. in which way could the ipad be a tinkerer device more than it is now? well, it could have an accessible *nix core with the ability run a package manager like apt and in general the ability to modify the core experience of the device. although it'd be great to have that, there wouldn't be that much use to it. everything in and on this device is highly optimized for the one experience every buyer comes to appreciate. any core modifications would probably deteriorate this experience rather than improve on it. but whatever i'm saying here doesn't actually matter, since every enthusiast has been able to do exactly that, get root access to any iOS device, since the first iphone. of course, in order to properly modify the devices behaviour, a lot of back-engineering is needed. but hey, that's what tinkering is all about, isn't it? i'm digressing... my actual point here is: specialized devices for specialized purposes. a fully capable linux machine with the most open os available today and the benefit of a prospering eco-system costs you a mere 35 bucks or even less. this is any tinkerer's dream and it's real and accessable to anyone. what again are we whining about here? the ipad/iphone are produced within a highly competitive market. that they're locked up is, objectively, a matter of protection of investments. also, because they can. to sum it up, the ipad isn't a tinkerer device because 1) it doesn't even have a keyboard. how would you tinker with it? 2) actually you can root the device and modify the underlying core processes 3) going beyond this would need official documentation by apple of it's secret apis etc., which isn't economically feasable in this highly competitive market. i mean samsung copies whatever the fuck is coming out of cupertino, atm at least. 4) it doesn't need to be more than a consumption device, because for the tinkerers there exists the most vivid environment imaginable: cheap hardware, a free, open, up-to-date os and a brimming eco-system of developers and software.
• yatta 15y ago
  Tablets with pen input are going to be great for creation (although the current devices are a bit laggy, that should be fixed in the next twelve months). Hopefully Apple will change their minds and support more creative input. Kids and old folks also seem to have their lives brightened up by iPads for the communication uses: video chat = realtime production of "content" ^.^
• tzm 15y ago
  Content consumption is not necessarily evil. I see it as a natural part of user adoption of new technology. People will overuse it to unconsciously push the boundary of what's acceptable. I see tablets as a key part of expanding and strengthening connectivity between people.. essentially social / behavorial economics. This is a natural element of the consumption curve. A next form of convergence will have higher utility value ie, nfc, holographic displays, etc. Let the consumers run wild I say. They will be well poised to adopt the next phase of technical evolution.
• therandomguy 15y ago
  This is the reason why I have stuck to my laptop. On the flip side majority of the people only consume. There is no reason for them to be carrying around the extra luggage. In fact I'm a consumer on TV, PS3, phone etc. the content creators use a different machine.
• wowfat 15y ago
  There are much more producers now with youtube and more interesting links sites like YC and many others etc. Now they all need much more consumers that do no use the traditional medium like TV. We need much more consumers with the iPads that consume these interesting artilces / stories and comment, share with friends just like I am doing right now on my iPad.
• SideburnsOfDoom 15y ago
  Even producers spend time consuming content. I'd expect that we all consume far more content than we produce. It's worth optimising that experience as well. If nobody consumed these media, what would be the point of producing them? I am more interested in what are you consuming - news.ycombinator.com or news.fox.com? "Twilight" movies or "The Wire" TV series?
• jeffdechambeau 15y ago
  This is broken thinking. The iPad is for content consumption. So what? So are books. We survived them just fine. We survived TV, too. Making content consumption easier is not a problem. You're just repeating the same hysterics we've heard time and time again. More than ever before in history, people are empowered to create and share content. It stands to reason that it should have gotten even easier to sift through and consume this content. And it has.
• j_baker 15y ago
  What's wrong with the iPad being a device for consuming? I like consuming. And isn't it a good thing if people have more ways to consume the content producers are producing? Production without consumption is useless.
• donburks 15y ago
  Feel free to send your iPad to me. I promise to thoroughly vet the balance I achieve between consumption and production. As a full-time developer (technical co-founder of a startup), I believe my perspective would be incredibly relevant to the YC crowd. I'll blog about it daily (from the iPad maybe?).
• runjake 15y ago
  Here's what I think: I'll make up my own mind. I don't get distracted like you and PG do. It seems to me you're blaming the device for a lack of discipline on your part. It's not designed to instill discipline. It's designed for convenience. There's nothing wrong with "consuming". I read books, good articles, and so on. I read more than ever. I don't understand the apparent war against this. It's not like everyone is hanging out, wasting time playing Angry Birds all day. Or maybe they are. But it doesn't matter to me, because I'm not.
• webwanderings 15y ago
  I don't know about iPad but when I bought my first Android tablet recently (I don't own any smart phone yet) my first instinct was that Android and this Tablet craze is nothing but more of the same consumerism. These are not productivity devices like computers and you can't really do or produce anything on it other than to consume and receive. The only thing that exist on these gadgets (be that smart phone or tablet) is the Market and these markets are there to sell you something. I am since then convinced that Desktop or Laptops are not going anywhere.
• Teknomad 15y ago
  A big part of my job is finding new technologies and keeping myself informed -- for this, the iPad has been an excellent tool. Another big part of my job is testing out new technologies and writing about my experiences -- for this, the iPad is next to useless. That said, I take a lot of notes on my iPad. For this, it's not optimal, but its getting better -- closer to pen & paper. Unlike pen & paper, I can actually share my notes and drawings with my globally-distributed team. If Apple wants to reverse the trend of perception against the iPad as a consume-only device, they should perfect its ability to simulate pen & paper and tout its usefulness as a note-taking device. This appears to be the approach Samsung is taking with the Galaxy Note.
• taylodl 15y ago
  Don't let other people do your thinking for you, and don't get something just because everyone else is getting it. An iPad is a tool. Either you have a need for it or you don't. In either case, if you decide to get one you're going to discover you're the same old you as you were prior to getting it. And hopefully that's a good thing! :)