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> Nonetheless, Atlanta has a homicide rate 5-10 times higher than Delhi .... Estimated number of civilian firearms per 100 people: - U.S.: 120.5 - India: 5.3

> Nonetheless, Atlanta has a homicide rate 5-10 times higher than Delhi .... Estimated number of civilian firearms per 100 people: - U.S.: 120.5 - India: 5.3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_g...

Cupertino95014 3y ago
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- dctoedt 3y ago
  > Guns are a fact So are typhoid and cholera — and civilized societies enforce reasonable laws to prevent them from disrupting life. BTW, in case you're wondering: I'm a Texan who has owned multiple firearms for pretty much my entire adult life — I was taught to shoot at about age eight by my dad, with more-advanced instruction a decade or so later, courtesy of Uncle Sam.
  - Cupertino95014 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - dctoedt 3y ago
      > unlike typhoid, there is absolutely zero chance that private gun ownership in the US is ever going to be abolished "Unlike typhoid"? We've yet to abolish typhoid; the U.S. gets about 200-300 cases per year, mostly from travelers. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8933273/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8933273/ And both typhoid and cholera have a nasty way of reappearing when natural disasters occur and sanitation takes a hit. But hey, since we can't ever achieve 100% success for all time, then we should just throw up our hands and learn to live with 100% failure, right? Yeah, that's the ticket ....
onetimeusename 3y ago
The US is kind of an outlier in gun ownership. What should we take away from this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r... Estimated number of civilian firearms per 100 people and gun deaths per 100000: - El Salvador: 5.8, 78.52 - Brazil: 8.6, 23.93 - Colombia: 10.10, 20.38 - U.S.: 120.5, 12.21 - Mexico: 15, 11.55 If anything it seems like proximity to cartels is the most likely predictor of gun homicide rates Meanwhile Switzerland has 27.6 guns per 100 civilians and 2.64 gun homicides per 100,000. So not sure what to conclude about gun ownership and homicides. Note that gun deaths not equal to gun homicides since deaths includes suicide and the CDC reports these items combined. If you wanted to discuss gun suicides that's fine but note this was about homicide.
- dctoedt 3y ago
  > Meanwhile Switzerland has 27.6 guns per 100 civilians and 2.64 gun homicides per 100,000. So not sure what to conclude about gun ownership and homicides. Another data point: Switzerland has strict gun laws that mostly ban the kind of military-grade firearms we see used in mass murders in the U.S. (and yes, some Latin American countries), and smaller guns require permits. [0] More: "Switzerland has a stunningly high rate of gun ownership — here's why it doesn't have mass shootings ... Unlike the US, Switzerland has mandatory military service for men. The government gives all men between the ages of 18 and 34 deemed 'fit for service' a pistol or a rifle and training on how to use them. After they've finished their service, the men can typically buy and keep their service weapons, but they have to get a permit for them." [1] [0] https://www.ch.ch/en/safety-and-justice/owning-a-weapon-in-switzerland/ https://www.ch.ch/en/safety-and-justice/owning-a-weapon-in-s... (scan down for a useful chart) [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-of-gun-deaths-2018-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-o...
  - xyzzyz 3y ago
    > Switzerland has strict gun laws that mostly ban the kind of military-grade firearms we see used in mass murders in the U.S. This is completely, verifiably false. It even contradicts the rest of your comment, where you quote: > After they've finished their service, the men can typically buy and keep their service weapons The “service weapon” here means literally the one that they used in military, which, as I presume, is “military grade”.
rayiner 3y ago
In Atlanta, about 35-40% of households own a firearm: https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/6/3/189 https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/6/3/189. In Idaho it’s 60% https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/gun-ownership-rates-by-state/ https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/gun-ownership-rates-by-stat.... Despite having more guns, Idaho has a homicide rate of 2.2 per 100,000, which is only a little higher than Belgium, and about the same as Canada, and a little lower than India. By contrast, Puerto Rico had fewer guns than India, but a homicide rate of 19 per 100,000, more than six times higher than India. Disarmed Puerto Rico has a homicide rate eight times higher than heavily armed Idaho. Clinging to the belief that it’s guns rather than social factors is just willful denial.
- dctoedt 3y ago
  > Clinging to the belief that it’s guns rather than social factors is just willful denial. That's a false dichotomy — sure, social factors play an important role, but it's a multi-variate phenomenon, and you seem to want to deny that gun-ownership rates have anything to do with it.
  - rayiner 3y ago
    You haven’t presented any evidence that guns are a major factor after adjusting for social factors. The US also has the highest rates of fatherless households in the world, while India has one of the lowest. Maybe that’s the reason for the difference in homicide rates.
    - dctoedt 3y ago
      “The” driving factor? Are we in agreement that it’s a factor?
    - ddd00001 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - dctoedt 3y ago
ddd00001 3y ago
[flagged]
- ddd00001 3y ago
  Once adjusted for demographics I meant - d'oh.

Cupertino95014 3y ago

[flagged]

dctoedt 3y ago
> Guns are a fact So are typhoid and cholera — and civilized societies enforce reasonable laws to prevent them from disrupting life. BTW, in case you're wondering: I'm a Texan who has owned multiple firearms for pretty much my entire adult life — I was taught to shoot at about age eight by my dad, with more-advanced instruction a decade or so later, courtesy of Uncle Sam.
- Cupertino95014 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - dctoedt 3y ago
    > unlike typhoid, there is absolutely zero chance that private gun ownership in the US is ever going to be abolished "Unlike typhoid"? We've yet to abolish typhoid; the U.S. gets about 200-300 cases per year, mostly from travelers. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8933273/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8933273/ And both typhoid and cholera have a nasty way of reappearing when natural disasters occur and sanitation takes a hit. But hey, since we can't ever achieve 100% success for all time, then we should just throw up our hands and learn to live with 100% failure, right? Yeah, that's the ticket ....

onetimeusename 3y ago

The US is kind of an outlier in gun ownership. What should we take away from this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-r... Estimated number of civilian firearms per 100 people and gun deaths per 100000: - El Salvador: 5.8, 78.52 - Brazil: 8.6, 23.93 - Colombia: 10.10, 20.38 - U.S.: 120.5, 12.21 - Mexico: 15, 11.55 If anything it seems like proximity to cartels is the most likely predictor of gun homicide rates Meanwhile Switzerland has 27.6 guns per 100 civilians and 2.64 gun homicides per 100,000. So not sure what to conclude about gun ownership and homicides. Note that gun deaths not equal to gun homicides since deaths includes suicide and the CDC reports these items combined. If you wanted to discuss gun suicides that's fine but note this was about homicide.

dctoedt 3y ago
> Meanwhile Switzerland has 27.6 guns per 100 civilians and 2.64 gun homicides per 100,000. So not sure what to conclude about gun ownership and homicides. Another data point: Switzerland has strict gun laws that mostly ban the kind of military-grade firearms we see used in mass murders in the U.S. (and yes, some Latin American countries), and smaller guns require permits. [0] More: "Switzerland has a stunningly high rate of gun ownership — here's why it doesn't have mass shootings ... Unlike the US, Switzerland has mandatory military service for men. The government gives all men between the ages of 18 and 34 deemed 'fit for service' a pistol or a rifle and training on how to use them. After they've finished their service, the men can typically buy and keep their service weapons, but they have to get a permit for them." [1] [0] https://www.ch.ch/en/safety-and-justice/owning-a-weapon-in-switzerland/ https://www.ch.ch/en/safety-and-justice/owning-a-weapon-in-s... (scan down for a useful chart) [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-of-gun-deaths-2018-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-o...
- xyzzyz 3y ago
  > Switzerland has strict gun laws that mostly ban the kind of military-grade firearms we see used in mass murders in the U.S. This is completely, verifiably false. It even contradicts the rest of your comment, where you quote: > After they've finished their service, the men can typically buy and keep their service weapons The “service weapon” here means literally the one that they used in military, which, as I presume, is “military grade”.

rayiner 3y ago

In Atlanta, about 35-40% of households own a firearm: https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/6/3/189 https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/6/3/189. In Idaho it’s 60% https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/gun-ownership-rates-by-state/ https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/gun-ownership-rates-by-stat.... Despite having more guns, Idaho has a homicide rate of 2.2 per 100,000, which is only a little higher than Belgium, and about the same as Canada, and a little lower than India. By contrast, Puerto Rico had fewer guns than India, but a homicide rate of 19 per 100,000, more than six times higher than India. Disarmed Puerto Rico has a homicide rate eight times higher than heavily armed Idaho. Clinging to the belief that it’s guns rather than social factors is just willful denial.

dctoedt 3y ago
> Clinging to the belief that it’s guns rather than social factors is just willful denial. That's a false dichotomy — sure, social factors play an important role, but it's a multi-variate phenomenon, and you seem to want to deny that gun-ownership rates have anything to do with it.
- rayiner 3y ago
  You haven’t presented any evidence that guns are a major factor after adjusting for social factors. The US also has the highest rates of fatherless households in the world, while India has one of the lowest. Maybe that’s the reason for the difference in homicide rates.
  - dctoedt 3y ago
    “The” driving factor? Are we in agreement that it’s a factor?
  - ddd00001 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - dctoedt 3y ago

ddd00001 3y ago

[flagged]

ddd00001 3y ago
Once adjusted for demographics I meant - d'oh.