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Chili Oil Notes
- fellowniusmonk 3y agoThey talk about about how hot infusing causes the chili's to suspend in oil, I wonder if you could incorporate using a popcorn cannon somewhere in the infusion process.
- civilitty 3y ago> I’ve also thought about doing a really low and slow extraction, say by using a sous vide machine. You do run into food safety issues, since the chilies can contain botulism. Sous vide was my first thought, since that avoids the evaporation and oxidation that decreases the intensity of the low and slow method. However I don't think botulism is any more of a concern here than any other sous vide dish and high heat doesn't kill botulism spores so it doesn't really matter how you cook the chilis. Just keep it above 140F while infusing and keep it out of the <130F danger zone past a few hours. Quickly cool it below 45F using an ice bath after infusing if you're paranoid or cooking for someone that might be immunocompromised.
- hardwaregeek 3y agoYeah I might give it a shot (although I gave away my sous vide machine). But low and slow isn't always better for extraction. Coffee for instance extracts more with a fast infusion versus cold brew.
- civilitty 3y agoCoffee extraction usually happens in a closed vessel where the volatiles aren’t as exposed to air and can’t as easily evaporate. The advantage of sous vide isn’t just the cooking temperature but the fact that the ingredients are completely sealed. It has a significant impact on many ingredients like chicken or carrots, which can stew in their own juices instead of reducing.
- hardwaregeek 3y agoThat’s not necessarily true. A clever dripper does open air infusion and works great. Ditto with pour overs. But perhaps with oil more volatile aroma compounds are released? Either way the only solution is to try it!
- steve_adams_86 3y agoI did sous vide chilli oil by placing the oil and chillies in glass canning jars in the water bath. I let them rip for about 90 minutes at ~88°C/190°F and the results were pretty good. I like the roasty/mildly bitter results from flash heating, but this was quite smooth and pleasant. I think some purists would think it tastes weird. It's a very "clean" chilli flavour. I think it would have been a lot better with more aromatics, and when I'm done with this oil I'll likely give that a shot.
- hardwaregeek 3y agoHave you tried blending it with a hot flash oil? My suspicion is that the two would be better than the sum of their parts.
- steve_adams_86 3y agoI haven’t, but I wondered the same thing! Something else I’ve considered is letting the sous vide system run another hour or two, just to see what happens to the flavour. I guess I should give both a shot one of these days.
- jmspring 3y agoWhen visiting various countries in Europe (Italy, Spain, etc) I've run across the equivalent of farmers markets where they have varying types of infused oils. The oils often have the seeds/herbs/etc. in the bottle. I wonder what method these vendors use. I know people who have simply put herbs/peppers/etc directly into oil and go with that method. I've not heard of them getting botulism, but maybe it was luck. When looking into this awhile back, I ran across this article - https://extension.psu.edu/how-to-safely-make-infused-oils https://extension.psu.edu/how-to-safely-make-infused-oils - I have yet to try the recommendations here in and wonder about the impact on flavor.
- justusthane 3y agoI’ve only heard of garlic in oil being a botulism risk. Are other veggies dangerous too?
- jmspring 3y agoThe article I linked to mentioned that fresh herbs could be a source as well. The article from OP mentions peppers can as well. So, I guess one has to be careful.
- fiddlerwoaroof 3y agoI wouldn’t do this myself, but theoretically heating the oil relatively high for a while before consuming would destroy any toxin buildup. The other route would be adding enough acid to prevent botulism from growing, but I think that can be a bit tricky.
- plaguuuuuu 3y agobotulism is pretty resistant to heat. ph, salt. im sure a high purity ethanol also
- fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago
- matthewmorgan 3y agoSince I caught covid my sense of smell//taste is reduced so much that I put hot sauce on everything.
- elderlybanana 3y agoMy favorite chili oils take the chilis just beyond a perfect maillard "sear" and venture very slightly into burnt territory. Many peppers have a natural bitterness when dried, and that slight bitterness added from the barely burned flavor brings out some extra, magical, umami depth. Adding some acidic elements makes for some incredible dishes. I have found that smoked chilis lose their smokiness with high heat though. I wonder if doing a lower heat extraction might retain those smoky flavors. Sounds like the multiple extraction/blend the author talked about would be worth a shot to get both.
- mortureb 3y agoI agree. Indian cooking uses a lot of flavored oil as “tadkas”. Spices (cumin, coriander, garlic, mustard etc.) including whole red chillies are brought up to temp in a small metal bowl with ghee over a flame and then added to the final dish. I’ve made chili oil this way and it seems to draw out more flavor and there’s the slight burnt flavor that I love.
- hardwaregeek 3y agoI've learned from cooking more Indian food recently that it's okay to burn spices a little. In most cuisines you're told to only bloom spices briefly but Indian food isn't afraid to really cook spices to their limit.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- nimbius 3y agoI use Korean red pepper flake, the same type I use in my kimchi, and it had provided fabulous results. I generally build on flavours like spring onions and lots of garlic first, pulling them out before leaving black cardamom Sichuan green chilis (for a more woody note) star anise cinnamon and coriander seed for a brighter aroma. I also mix black vinegar and salt in with the chilis first before decanting the seasoned oil atop them. I make a litre at a time but can't ever keep it in the house. The whole effort is 1-2 hours but its mostly just watching the garlic and onion and making sure to pull it out before it burns. The decanting doesn't generate smoke or anything troublesome but beware, the smell of chili oil will permeate the kitchen for about three days.
- pipeline_peak 3y ago[flagged]
- bowsamic 3y agoTotally agree. It’s sad and they’ve lost the pulse of life and art
- notamy 3y agoSome people derive joy from doing it this way. You or I may not agree with it, but that doesn’t mean it’s a wrong way to enjoy something.
- pipeline_peak 3y ago[flagged]
- beefpies 3y agoHaving hobbies is not only infantile but "hollow and sad"? Very strange take. If it bothers you so much, don't engage with it. Taking time on a Sunday to write really nasty things about people sharing their hobbies on the internet doesn't seem especially full or joyful.
- pipeline_peak 3y ago[flagged]
- beefpies 3y ago[flagged]
- pipeline_peak 3y ago[flagged]
- michaelteter 3y agoWith regard to the health risks many comments note, I wonder how many natural (collaborative, so to speak) ingredient mixes might contribute to positive food safety despite the known threats. For example, I had a roommate who would cook salmon in a tomato sauce and leave it to sit overnight. From my background, this sounded like obvious death, but he assured me it was a common recipe in South Africa. I did try it, and it was delicious. I had no adverse reactions after eating it (a full day after it was cooked and left sitting in the pan).
- kelipso 3y agoSome fish curries from kerala can be left outside for days and the flavor is supposed to improve. The curries have high heat and acidity, so it makes sense it doesn't go bad.
- michaelteter 3y agoCookbooks with these kinds of recipes surely exist, but I wonder if there are any recipe books that focus first on special ingredient and preparation combinations that result in safety/preservation benefits beyond just good taste.
- kelipso 3y agoYeah it's something I've wondered about. Like for fish curries, adding coriander is supposed to make it so it doesn't last as long. I guess one thing is books on fermented foods that should give lots of hints on how to modify your recipes for preservation.
- throwaway892238 3y agoWhy would this concern you more than anything else? If you cook the fish, it's not going to "go bad" as quickly as if it were raw. If you cook anything to a particular temperature and time, it should kill most bacteria in it. Then the acidity of the tomato should help resist bacterial growth a wee bit longer than something pH-neutral. On top of all this, "obvious death" from bacteria in food is some serious hyperbole; it's quite rare to die of food poisoning.
- ciceryadam 3y agoThere's another kind of chilli oil, pressed from Hungarian spicy paprika/capsicum seeds: https://rubinpaprika.com/magolajok/fuszerpaprika-magolaj-csipos-100ml https://rubinpaprika.com/magolajok/fuszerpaprika-magolaj-csi... It has a deeply nutty flavor and the spiciness is a bit sneaky, but it's a great addition to finishing oils.
- s0rce 3y agoNeat!, a quick search doesn't come up with anywhere to buy it in North America, also never seen this.
- dendrite9 3y agoInteresting, does it go bad quickly? Kurbiskernol is one of my favorite oils for special uses but it seems to spoil faster than some other oils. And I don't always travel somewhere I can pick up a good bottle. I suppose thinking of oils as more like a juice might be a good approach.
- metachris 3y agoKürbiskernöl (pumpkin seed oil) should be stored in the fridge, there it lasts pretty long.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ciceryadam 3y agoIt's pretty shelf stable. I have one opened sitting on my shelf for three months and it still smells/tastes good.
- scarmig 3y agoMy "recipe" is simply caiziyou and erjingtiao, hot flash method, and it works well enough. One thing the author misses about the oil choice: what makes caiziyou superior to other oil choices is that it has a high viscosity. That results in the chili oil sticking to food and the tongue better once used; it probably also affects the fluid dynamics of the frying step in a way, though I can't say if it's significant.
- hardwaregeek 3y agoOoh I’d never heard that! I will say there is something magical about caiziyou. It’s so nutty and roasted and beautifully dark.
- yawnxyz 3y agoHave y'all tried steeping in anchovies for salty / umami flavor? It definitely moves away from Asian chili oils and into Mediterranean, but I find anchovies add quite a hard-to-describe depth to the chili oil.
- hardwaregeek 3y agoInteresting! I've mostly added umami from mushroom powder and MSG. Anchovies or fish sauce could be an interesting addition, although that does make it more of a sauce than an oil.
- AareyBaba 3y agoThai "prik nam pla" is chili in fish sauce. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isLl3m_JUx4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isLl3m_JUx4
- s_dev 3y agoIf anyone is looking for a chilli oil you can buy that's both delicous and available check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lao_Gan_Ma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lao_Gan_Ma It goes great with, eggs, rice and any yogurt dishes.
- racked 3y agoCoincidentally I had the black bean version of this a few days ago. Delicious, but less spicy than expected. :-)
- elesiuta 3y agoIt used to be spicier and even better before her son took over and changed it to a cheaper chili from another province a few years ago (which wasn't great). I ended up trying something like 20 different brands looking for an alternative, and my favourites from least to most spicy were: Chuan Lao Hui, Lee Kum Kee, and Wa!, which I actually found even better. I tried Lao Gan Ma again now that they're back to chilies from the original province, but it still doesn't taste quite the same, I wonder if the sourcing changes caused them to lose their specific cultivar?
- algas 3y agoWa! is my absolute favorite chili oil. I put it in and on everything. A simple bowl of rice, with some Wa! (and perhaps an egg), becomes an entire meal.
- selimthegrim 3y agoSo I wasn’t imagining the change in pungency of the chili crisp at all.
- chaos_emergent 3y agoThis stuff is as addictive as sugar! I love it. Watch out for how much you’re putting on your food :)
- gsuuon 3y ago
- anonu 3y agoI make a "Mediterranean" version of this with olive oil and I cut up some chilies and just let them soak. Completely different use case than an Asian chili oil IMO... but a little bit easier to do as you don't need to heat the oil (and you probably wouldn't want to heat olive oil that much anyway).
- cinntaile 3y agoYou use it pretty much instantly then? Or do you take any other steps to prevent the botumism bacteria from thriving?
- anonu 3y agoYes, chilis should be dried out before you use them. For me its been shelf-stable outside for 2-3 months. Obviously, with botulism you would smell it right away if its off.
- loa_in_ 3y ago1) You can't smell botulism bacteria 2) Oils are notoriously shelf stable 3) Botulinum bacteria need oxygen deprived environment and relatively stable ~10°C to proliferate. 4) Botulinum bacteria spores must be present in the bottle
- levlaz 3y agoIt makes me so happy that this is on the front page of HN. :D
- mauvehaus 3y agoTangential, but related: my partner claims that putting oil and garlic in a cold pan and warming them together yields a different flavor than heating the oil, and then adding the garlic. I'm pretty convinced that she's right. Has anyone experimented with this rigorously? I'd happily nerd out reading a similar article in that subject.
- fooker 3y agoYeah this is because you have more time when the oil and garlic is heated together (before the garlic burns). You want to do this when garlic is the main flavor you are aiming for and avoid doing it when garlic wants to complement the other herbs and spices.
- elhudy 3y agoI love nerding out on food as mich as the next person. On food and cooking is one of my favorite kitchen tools. Sichuan chili oil is a staple condiment in our house. That said, i find the following to be an oft-repeated bs phrase parroted across the internet. You can find it tracing back to reddit threads over ten years ago. > You can end up with what are called fines and boulders, fines being tiny, dust-like pieces of coffee that create bitterness in the cup, and boulders being large chunks that create sourness or emptiness in the cup. I dare any coffee drinker to blindly try their coffee with a crappy grinder, and compare to their $200 carbon fiber whatever. You wont detect the difference. I once looked into someone’s reddit account who was repeating this - and found that they were selling grinders elsewhere. Must be awesome margins.
- bradgessler 3y agoIt matters if you’re brewing pour-over coffee. If you don’t use a burr grinder the fines settle towards the bottom while pouring and clogs it up. Takes forever!
- xapata 3y agoComparing my cheap spice chopper and my cheap burr grinder, I noticed a clear improvement. Maybe that's because the spice chopper was so bad at chopping coffee beans. I doubt the fancy burr grinders make much difference, but then again I was skeptical of the cheap burr grinder until I tried it.
- VerminOctopus1 3y agoA crappy grinder will not work at all with espresso.
- crunchytreat 3y agoI’ve spent ten years in the specialty coffee industry (not selling grinders). If you’re controlling other variables properly you should definitely be able to tell the difference.
- c0pium 3y agoI think this is an important insight. Some people don’t have much experience in making repeatable coffee, and whether you make the coffee well is more important than how good the grinder is.
- nycdatasci 3y agoThe discussion here reminds me of the lady tasting tea experiment. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_tasting_tea https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_tasting_tea
- Mistletoe 3y agoI read all that and didn’t get the thing I want to know. Could the lady tell the difference?!
- thaumasiotes 3y ago> David Salsburg reports that a colleague of Fisher, H. Fairfield Smith, revealed that in the actual experiment the lady succeeded in identifying all eight cups correctly.
- Mistletoe 3y agoThank you. That’s very impressive!
- tomsmeding 3y agoIt's on the page, pretty high up: > One could then ask what the probability was for her getting the specific number of cups she identified correct (in fact all eight), but just by chance.
- ChrisKnott 3y agoI'm struggling to believe this can be done by taste; I could understand it if you went milk+teabag, then added water, but this seems like brewed tea in a pot added to milk in cup v.s. milk added to brewed tea in a cup, which will get totally mixed either way...? The only difference I can think of in these situations is the temperature of the bottom of the cup. Can this really detectably affect the taste? Maybe she was subconsciously feeling this?
- RugnirViking 3y ago
- peteforde 3y agoAre rapeseed oil and canola oil the same thing? Well, yes and no. https://www.tastingtable.com/1066770/are-canola-and-rapeseed-oil-the-same-thing/ https://www.tastingtable.com/1066770/are-canola-and-rapeseed...
- gsuuon 3y agoI feel the experiments you mention would make a really entertaining youtube series.
- tomcam 3y agoSichuan chili oil and cuisine blow me away. Discovered it in my early 50s and within about 1 day my wife decided I’m a reincarnated Sichuan farmer lol
- raylad 3y agoI am going to take this opportunity to share the chili oil that is so good that I'm sure I could never make it: the most delicious chili oil made with sesame oil from the best sesame oil producer. Yamada Seiyu Goma ra-yu (spicy sesame oil) Ingredients are: sesame oil, red pepper, spring onion, ginger, sansho (zanthoxylum piperitum), cinnamon, star anise, mikan tangerine skin Here is the manufacturers site: https://sesamepaste.jp/en/#Products https://sesamepaste.jp/en/#Products Although it's not on the Nijiya Market website, it can often be found there, mixed in amongst the lesser sesame chili oils. It's a favorite gift of mine to give, and nearly everyone who receives it mentions later to me how much they enjoyed it.
- reaperman 3y agoReally love the Mala Su Chili Crisp here: https://yunhai.shop/collections/su-chili-crisp https://yunhai.shop/collections/su-chili-crisp It's completely replaced my use of Lao Gan Ma Spicy Chili Crisp I enjoy the Lao Gan Ma, but I wouldn't say I "love" it like I would for the Su Chili Crisp Mala.
- whynotqat 3y agoIn Modernist Cuisine, Myrvhold et al advocate for a sous vide chili oil. Roast the chilis and other ingredients at about 250 in the oven, then sous vide at 158. Never made it myself, and it's not intended to be authentic Chinese chili oil. They also mention using a pressure cooker instead, which seems reasonable.