6 ms·

You forgot to mention that the activist was killed because he was shooting a cop.

by chroma 3y ago

SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
Is this alleged by a cop? Cops can lie under oath without consequences, unlike a regular civilian.
- chroma 3y ago
  Here’s the summary of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation’s findings: https://gbi.georgia.gov/press-releases/2023-04-14/gbi-investigates-officer-involved-shooting-following-multi-agency https://gbi.georgia.gov/press-releases/2023-04-14/gbi-invest... The protestor had a gun on him. The model and serial number matched that of a gun he purchased in 2020. The round recovered from the state trooper’s abdomen matched that gun.
  - SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
    Okay? Georgia bureau of investigation isn’t exactly a neutral third party unfortunately, also, again, they can lie and omit without consequences. I’m pointing out that due to the existing corruption baked into the justice system and police force, it’s extremely difficult to buy anything said no matter how many fancy labels is put into it.
    - chroma 3y ago
      So what do you think happened? Did the Atlanta police place the gun at the scene and hope that the GBI would lie about the forensics results? Did they lie about the purchase records too? Did they shoot one of their own to justify murder? If they wanted to kill an activist, they could just say he was pointing a gun at them. No need to almost kill a state trooper to cover it up.
      - SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
        I never posited any alternatives, except to say that you cannot trust the testimony of obviously corrupt institutions. There are literally infinite amount of untruths they could’ve lied about and an infinite number of nuances left out in testimony. You cannot rely on anything except that someone is dead.
        midasuni 3y ago
        And someone else was shot. I don’t think that fact is in dispute?
        SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
        You’re missing my point, which is that you cannot rely on the testimony of corrupt individuals who can lie under oath, in the court of law, without consequence. This means you only have a few facts, and any other presented facts by corrupt institutions are suspect by default.
        rayiner 3y ago
        [flagged]
      - jstarfish 3y ago
        One way this all makes sense is if someone else borrowed his gun and shot the trooper. The cops traced it back to Teran and went into the protest encounter expecting to be dealing with a cop killer. Kid had no idea what was coming; APD are thugs an environment that self-selects for them. They took no chances and wasted him. Covering up a summary execution is way easier than conspiracy to commit it.
        NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
        The trooper was shot immediately prior to the return fire which killed the protester. This timeline is not coherent with the facts.
  - woodruffw 3y ago
    > The round recovered from the state trooper’s abdomen matched that gun. Firearms forensics is, like most criminal forensics, junk science[1]: even when the basic scientific reality is aligned any particular technique, it's heavily laundered through interpretation and not subject to rigorous statistical analysis. (In particular, bullet analysis is complete nonsense. Prior to 2005 the standard technique was lead-composition analysis, which (1) assumed that all of the suspect's bullets were the same, and (2) assumed that similarly-manufactured bullets would have similar compositions. Neither is true, which is why the Federal government no longer uses it as evidence. It's unclear whether the same is true for Georgia and the GBI.) Edit: A more specific reference for ballistic analysis[2], which appears to be what the GBI used here. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forensic_firearm_examination#Criticisms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forensic_firearm_examination#C... [2]: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2589871X20300553?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2589871X2...
  - fuzzbazz 3y ago
    From other answers in this thread you'd think that the police just shot and killed an innocent protester... how can anyone think that if there's an injured trooper?
    - Fluorescence 3y ago
      Idiot cops opening fire on mass and hitting another cop in the crossfire as has happened many times before.
      - lostmsu 3y ago
        Statistically implausible.
aaomidi 3y ago
[flagged]
- chroma 3y ago
  He was so committed to nonviolence that he purchased a handgun and somehow one of the bullets from that gun ended up in a state trooper’s abdomen. From the Georgia Bureau of Investigation [1]: > Today, the GBI received confirmation from a firearms transaction record that in September 2020, Manuel Esteban Paez Teran legally purchased the firearm that was used in the shooting of a GSP trooper. > The handgun is described as a Smith & Wesson M&P Shield 9mm. Forensic ballistic analysis has confirmed that the projectile recovered from the trooper’s wound matches Teran’s handgun. 1. https://gbi.georgia.gov/press-releases/2023-04-14/gbi-investigates-officer-involved-shooting-following-multi-agency https://gbi.georgia.gov/press-releases/2023-04-14/gbi-invest...
- WillPostForFood 3y ago
  This was classic lawyering - pay for your own autopsy to get the story you want. We know three thing, the guy who got shot: 1: Purchased a S&W 9mm pistol 2: That pistol was on his possession at the protest 3: A police office was shot with that pistol The guy who got shot was then shot by the police ~50 times, so not surprising he was shot in the hand. That's not evidence of one's hands being up in the air.
  - woodruffw 3y ago
    Asking earnestly: what makes this and not the police's own reports "classic lawering"? A value-neutral outlook would require us to consider both equally. (And note: we don't actually know anything besides (1). (2) is a claim by the police, and (3) is the product of a pseudoscientific ballistics analysis by the same. Accepting them as fact goes well beyond the neutral viewpoint.)
    - NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
      I mean, they have a photo of the gun, on the ground at the crime scene.
gyanreyer 3y ago
The autopsy found there wasn't gunpowder on their hands and protesters who were there claim that isn't what happened. Police lie all the time.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  That's not what I read here: https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/autopsy-cop-city-protester-manuel-teran-death-gunshot-powder-residue.amp https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/autopsy-cop-city-protester-... > Gunpowder residue is not seen on the hands. A GSR kit is performed," the report reads in part. > That GSR kit was sent off to the GBI Crime Lab for analysis. The findings were released Tuesday. This report "revealed the presence of particles characteristic of gunshot primer residue." The autopsy did not find visible residue. That is quite different from your conclusion "the autopsy found there wasn't gunpowder on their hands".
  - uoaei 3y ago
    I urge you to consider the owner of this media outlet and what political ties they likely have. Propaganda works best when veiled in a guise of neutrality.
    - sokoloff 3y ago
      If you don't like or believe reading the quotes from the reports on a right-biased media source, perhaps you'll like or believe reading them more on a left-biased media source (the details in which I find even more compelling that the protester very likely discharged their firearm): 1 - https://www.ajc.com/news/gbi-report-particles-characteristic-of-gunshot-primer-residue-found-on-activists-hands/L73LI6AWZJENNAN2M2QRWAAGBU/ https://www.ajc.com/news/gbi-report-particles-characteristic... 2 - https://www.allsides.com/news-source/atlanta-journal-constitution https://www.allsides.com/news-source/atlanta-journal-constit...
      - uoaei 3y ago
        > The Atlanta Journal-Constitution (AJC) is the only major daily newspaper in the metropolitan area of Atlanta, Georgia, United States. It is the flagship publication of Cox Enterprises. Cox Enterprises is ringing extremely loud warning bells. This is the same Cox that is time and again accused of being an internet and TV monopoly and taking advantage of their customers with exploitative, borderline illegal tactics. I don't trust them one bit. I'm willing to bet in a place like Atlanta, with the history it has, there's still a good ol' boys club with deep roots, operating as the Chamber of Commerce or another faceless, buried, quasi-bureaucratic market-capture and -manipulation mechanism. It's such a mundane point to make because of how ubiquitous this pattern is, but bears repeating in this context. It always seems paranoid to point out this possibility until it's proven true. You can see a recent expression of this tendency in the raid on that elderly reporter in Kansas, the one that stressed her out so much she died. Again, critical reading is imperative here. Especially considering how news media outlets today frequently rely on "access journalism" -- ie, favorable coverage and language in exchange for voluntary participation by police in accessing details about new stories -- we should expect that large outlets (especially ones with captive audiences such as "the only major daily newspaper in the metropolitan area of Atlanta, Georgia"; looks like they monopolized Atlanta's newspaper market, too) play games with rhetoric to maintain legitimacy while peppering in propaganda, in the name of "both sides" and "neutrality", in order to maintain access. You shouldn't trust that 'allsides' website any more than you should trust anyone else. I certainly don't. You should also note: "As of September 2023, AllSides has low or initial confidence in our Lean left rating for Atlanta Journal-Constitution." This does not support your assertion that this media source is "left-biased". In fact upon further review that website relies exclusively on community reviews to label these websites. It has the same issues that any reporting mechanism of this form has, which makes it even less trustworthy. ACJ is playing to their crowd just like the rest of them to maintain legitimacy and keep the money flowing. This isn't to say that everything in the news is fake, just that everything in the news is shaped by material forces working behind the scenes which helps to form the narratives that end up in the columns and webpages. Sometimes there's outright lies, sometimes lies by omission. It's as much about what is said as what isn't said. Sometimes even emphasis and rhetoric is enough to shift the narrative enough that certain perspectives are completely memory-holed.
coldtea 3y ago
Like all those unarmed 7-12 year olds that "looked like they had something in their hands", or the dozens of people killed or arrested which then had guns planted of them? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/st-louis-officer-executed-suspect-planted-gun-his-car-prosecutor-n788626 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/st-louis-officer-execut... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds6g-QyAxbw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds6g-QyAxbw https://abcnews.go.com/US/baltimore-officers-planted-gun-man-deliberately-running-indictment/story?id=61498790 https://abcnews.go.com/US/baltimore-officers-planted-gun-man...
- chroma 3y ago
  Cops get too trigger happy all the time, but in this case the activist had a gun that forensics matched to a bullet in a state trooper’s stomach. From the GBI’s press releases [1]: > Today, the GBI received confirmation from a firearms transaction record that in September 2020, Manuel Esteban Paez Teran legally purchased the firearm that was used in the shooting of a GSP trooper. > The handgun is described as a Smith & Wesson M&P Shield 9mm. Forensic ballistic analysis has confirmed that the projectile recovered from the trooper’s wound matches Teran’s handgun 1. https://gbi.georgia.gov/press-releases/2023-04-14/gbi-investigates-officer-involved-shooting-following-multi-agency https://gbi.georgia.gov/press-releases/2023-04-14/gbi-invest...
  - sixothree 3y ago
    Ballistic analysis is useless. Video proof or they are lying. Deep South America is more of a police state than people realize.
  - giantrobot 3y ago
    It sounds so believable that a protestor bought and owned an M&P Shield, a gun extremely popular with police, and brought it to a protest. It's also super believable that while surrounded by armed police that this person decided to shoot a single round at an officer from a sitting position. Super. Believable. /s
    - 3y ago
hedora 3y ago
Yes, and according the autopsy: "Both Manuel's left and right hands show exit wounds in both palms. The autopsy further reveals that Manuel was most probably in a seated position, cross-legged when killed," Also, he was shot a dozen times, and apparently had raised both his arms. Neat trick getting shot through both palms while holding a gun (without damaging the gun), kind of like bashing your own head in from the back of a squad car, or hanging yourself from a 9 ft jail cell ceiling without a rope or platform.
- Gud 3y ago
  Where are you quoting this from? Can you provide a link?
  - smokel 3y ago
    You can easily Google this yourself. The first hit is: https://www.npr.org/2023/03/11/1162843992/cop-city-atlanta-activist-autopsy https://www.npr.org/2023/03/11/1162843992/cop-city-atlanta-a...
    - Gud 3y ago
      Well normally when you quote something, you source what is quoted. It's not up to the reader to track down sources. Thanks for the link.
- NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
  >Neat trick getting shot through both palms while holding a gun If you get shot 57 times, including through your head, you're probably going to drop what you're holding at some point during the experience.
danaris 3y ago
Even if he owned a gun... Even if he had it with him... Even if he had just shot a cop with it... It does not justify murdering him for it, especially since from what I've seen, when he was shot he had surrendered and was no threat to anyone. We really need to stop letting cops control the narrative around their extrajudicial killings by putting blame on the victim. It doesn't matter if the victim is a pure choirboy or the worst, most hard-bitten gang member you can find: lethal force should be the absolute last resort when attempting to subdue someone.

You forgot to mention that the activist was killed because he was shooting a cop.

by chroma 3y ago

You forgot to mention that the activist was killed because he was shooting a cop.

SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago

Is this alleged by a cop? Cops can lie under oath without consequences, unlike a regular civilian.

chroma 3y ago
Here’s the summary of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation’s findings: https://gbi.georgia.gov/press-releases/2023-04-14/gbi-investigates-officer-involved-shooting-following-multi-agency https://gbi.georgia.gov/press-releases/2023-04-14/gbi-invest... The protestor had a gun on him. The model and serial number matched that of a gun he purchased in 2020. The round recovered from the state trooper’s abdomen matched that gun.
- SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
  Okay? Georgia bureau of investigation isn’t exactly a neutral third party unfortunately, also, again, they can lie and omit without consequences. I’m pointing out that due to the existing corruption baked into the justice system and police force, it’s extremely difficult to buy anything said no matter how many fancy labels is put into it.
  - chroma 3y ago
    So what do you think happened? Did the Atlanta police place the gun at the scene and hope that the GBI would lie about the forensics results? Did they lie about the purchase records too? Did they shoot one of their own to justify murder? If they wanted to kill an activist, they could just say he was pointing a gun at them. No need to almost kill a state trooper to cover it up.
    - SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
      I never posited any alternatives, except to say that you cannot trust the testimony of obviously corrupt institutions. There are literally infinite amount of untruths they could’ve lied about and an infinite number of nuances left out in testimony. You cannot rely on anything except that someone is dead.
      - midasuni 3y ago
        And someone else was shot. I don’t think that fact is in dispute?
        SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
        You’re missing my point, which is that you cannot rely on the testimony of corrupt individuals who can lie under oath, in the court of law, without consequence. This means you only have a few facts, and any other presented facts by corrupt institutions are suspect by default.
        rayiner 3y ago
        [flagged]
    - jstarfish 3y ago
      One way this all makes sense is if someone else borrowed his gun and shot the trooper. The cops traced it back to Teran and went into the protest encounter expecting to be dealing with a cop killer. Kid had no idea what was coming; APD are thugs an environment that self-selects for them. They took no chances and wasted him. Covering up a summary execution is way easier than conspiracy to commit it.
      - NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
        The trooper was shot immediately prior to the return fire which killed the protester. This timeline is not coherent with the facts.
- woodruffw 3y ago
  > The round recovered from the state trooper’s abdomen matched that gun. Firearms forensics is, like most criminal forensics, junk science[1]: even when the basic scientific reality is aligned any particular technique, it's heavily laundered through interpretation and not subject to rigorous statistical analysis. (In particular, bullet analysis is complete nonsense. Prior to 2005 the standard technique was lead-composition analysis, which (1) assumed that all of the suspect's bullets were the same, and (2) assumed that similarly-manufactured bullets would have similar compositions. Neither is true, which is why the Federal government no longer uses it as evidence. It's unclear whether the same is true for Georgia and the GBI.) Edit: A more specific reference for ballistic analysis[2], which appears to be what the GBI used here. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forensic_firearm_examination#Criticisms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forensic_firearm_examination#C... [2]: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2589871X20300553?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2589871X2...
- fuzzbazz 3y ago
  From other answers in this thread you'd think that the police just shot and killed an innocent protester... how can anyone think that if there's an injured trooper?
  - Fluorescence 3y ago
    Idiot cops opening fire on mass and hitting another cop in the crossfire as has happened many times before.
    - lostmsu 3y ago
      Statistically implausible.

aaomidi 3y ago

[flagged]

chroma 3y ago
He was so committed to nonviolence that he purchased a handgun and somehow one of the bullets from that gun ended up in a state trooper’s abdomen. From the Georgia Bureau of Investigation [1]: > Today, the GBI received confirmation from a firearms transaction record that in September 2020, Manuel Esteban Paez Teran legally purchased the firearm that was used in the shooting of a GSP trooper. > The handgun is described as a Smith & Wesson M&P Shield 9mm. Forensic ballistic analysis has confirmed that the projectile recovered from the trooper’s wound matches Teran’s handgun. 1. https://gbi.georgia.gov/press-releases/2023-04-14/gbi-investigates-officer-involved-shooting-following-multi-agency https://gbi.georgia.gov/press-releases/2023-04-14/gbi-invest...
WillPostForFood 3y ago
This was classic lawyering - pay for your own autopsy to get the story you want. We know three thing, the guy who got shot: 1: Purchased a S&W 9mm pistol 2: That pistol was on his possession at the protest 3: A police office was shot with that pistol The guy who got shot was then shot by the police ~50 times, so not surprising he was shot in the hand. That's not evidence of one's hands being up in the air.
- woodruffw 3y ago
  Asking earnestly: what makes this and not the police's own reports "classic lawering"? A value-neutral outlook would require us to consider both equally. (And note: we don't actually know anything besides (1). (2) is a claim by the police, and (3) is the product of a pseudoscientific ballistics analysis by the same. Accepting them as fact goes well beyond the neutral viewpoint.)
  - NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
    I mean, they have a photo of the gun, on the ground at the crime scene.

gyanreyer 3y ago

The autopsy found there wasn't gunpowder on their hands and protesters who were there claim that isn't what happened. Police lie all the time.

sokoloff 3y ago
That's not what I read here: https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/autopsy-cop-city-protester-manuel-teran-death-gunshot-powder-residue.amp https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/autopsy-cop-city-protester-... > Gunpowder residue is not seen on the hands. A GSR kit is performed," the report reads in part. > That GSR kit was sent off to the GBI Crime Lab for analysis. The findings were released Tuesday. This report "revealed the presence of particles characteristic of gunshot primer residue." The autopsy did not find visible residue. That is quite different from your conclusion "the autopsy found there wasn't gunpowder on their hands".
- uoaei 3y ago
  I urge you to consider the owner of this media outlet and what political ties they likely have. Propaganda works best when veiled in a guise of neutrality.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    If you don't like or believe reading the quotes from the reports on a right-biased media source, perhaps you'll like or believe reading them more on a left-biased media source (the details in which I find even more compelling that the protester very likely discharged their firearm): 1 - https://www.ajc.com/news/gbi-report-particles-characteristic-of-gunshot-primer-residue-found-on-activists-hands/L73LI6AWZJENNAN2M2QRWAAGBU/ https://www.ajc.com/news/gbi-report-particles-characteristic... 2 - https://www.allsides.com/news-source/atlanta-journal-constitution https://www.allsides.com/news-source/atlanta-journal-constit...
    - uoaei 3y ago
      > The Atlanta Journal-Constitution (AJC) is the only major daily newspaper in the metropolitan area of Atlanta, Georgia, United States. It is the flagship publication of Cox Enterprises. Cox Enterprises is ringing extremely loud warning bells. This is the same Cox that is time and again accused of being an internet and TV monopoly and taking advantage of their customers with exploitative, borderline illegal tactics. I don't trust them one bit. I'm willing to bet in a place like Atlanta, with the history it has, there's still a good ol' boys club with deep roots, operating as the Chamber of Commerce or another faceless, buried, quasi-bureaucratic market-capture and -manipulation mechanism. It's such a mundane point to make because of how ubiquitous this pattern is, but bears repeating in this context. It always seems paranoid to point out this possibility until it's proven true. You can see a recent expression of this tendency in the raid on that elderly reporter in Kansas, the one that stressed her out so much she died. Again, critical reading is imperative here. Especially considering how news media outlets today frequently rely on "access journalism" -- ie, favorable coverage and language in exchange for voluntary participation by police in accessing details about new stories -- we should expect that large outlets (especially ones with captive audiences such as "the only major daily newspaper in the metropolitan area of Atlanta, Georgia"; looks like they monopolized Atlanta's newspaper market, too) play games with rhetoric to maintain legitimacy while peppering in propaganda, in the name of "both sides" and "neutrality", in order to maintain access. You shouldn't trust that 'allsides' website any more than you should trust anyone else. I certainly don't. You should also note: "As of September 2023, AllSides has low or initial confidence in our Lean left rating for Atlanta Journal-Constitution." This does not support your assertion that this media source is "left-biased". In fact upon further review that website relies exclusively on community reviews to label these websites. It has the same issues that any reporting mechanism of this form has, which makes it even less trustworthy. ACJ is playing to their crowd just like the rest of them to maintain legitimacy and keep the money flowing. This isn't to say that everything in the news is fake, just that everything in the news is shaped by material forces working behind the scenes which helps to form the narratives that end up in the columns and webpages. Sometimes there's outright lies, sometimes lies by omission. It's as much about what is said as what isn't said. Sometimes even emphasis and rhetoric is enough to shift the narrative enough that certain perspectives are completely memory-holed.

coldtea 3y ago

Like all those unarmed 7-12 year olds that "looked like they had something in their hands", or the dozens of people killed or arrested which then had guns planted of them? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/st-louis-officer-executed-suspect-planted-gun-his-car-prosecutor-n788626 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/st-louis-officer-execut... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds6g-QyAxbw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds6g-QyAxbw https://abcnews.go.com/US/baltimore-officers-planted-gun-man-deliberately-running-indictment/story?id=61498790 https://abcnews.go.com/US/baltimore-officers-planted-gun-man...

chroma 3y ago
Cops get too trigger happy all the time, but in this case the activist had a gun that forensics matched to a bullet in a state trooper’s stomach. From the GBI’s press releases [1]: > Today, the GBI received confirmation from a firearms transaction record that in September 2020, Manuel Esteban Paez Teran legally purchased the firearm that was used in the shooting of a GSP trooper. > The handgun is described as a Smith & Wesson M&P Shield 9mm. Forensic ballistic analysis has confirmed that the projectile recovered from the trooper’s wound matches Teran’s handgun 1. https://gbi.georgia.gov/press-releases/2023-04-14/gbi-investigates-officer-involved-shooting-following-multi-agency https://gbi.georgia.gov/press-releases/2023-04-14/gbi-invest...
- sixothree 3y ago
  Ballistic analysis is useless. Video proof or they are lying. Deep South America is more of a police state than people realize.
- giantrobot 3y ago
  It sounds so believable that a protestor bought and owned an M&P Shield, a gun extremely popular with police, and brought it to a protest. It's also super believable that while surrounded by armed police that this person decided to shoot a single round at an officer from a sitting position. Super. Believable. /s
  - 3y ago

hedora 3y ago

Yes, and according the autopsy: "Both Manuel's left and right hands show exit wounds in both palms. The autopsy further reveals that Manuel was most probably in a seated position, cross-legged when killed," Also, he was shot a dozen times, and apparently had raised both his arms. Neat trick getting shot through both palms while holding a gun (without damaging the gun), kind of like bashing your own head in from the back of a squad car, or hanging yourself from a 9 ft jail cell ceiling without a rope or platform.

Gud 3y ago
Where are you quoting this from? Can you provide a link?
- smokel 3y ago
  You can easily Google this yourself. The first hit is: https://www.npr.org/2023/03/11/1162843992/cop-city-atlanta-activist-autopsy https://www.npr.org/2023/03/11/1162843992/cop-city-atlanta-a...
  - Gud 3y ago
    Well normally when you quote something, you source what is quoted. It's not up to the reader to track down sources. Thanks for the link.
NovemberWhiskey 3y ago
>Neat trick getting shot through both palms while holding a gun If you get shot 57 times, including through your head, you're probably going to drop what you're holding at some point during the experience.

danaris 3y ago

Even if he owned a gun... Even if he had it with him... Even if he had just shot a cop with it... It does not justify murdering him for it, especially since from what I've seen, when he was shot he had surrendered and was no threat to anyone. We really need to stop letting cops control the narrative around their extrajudicial killings by putting blame on the victim. It doesn't matter if the victim is a pure choirboy or the worst, most hard-bitten gang member you can find: lethal force should be the absolute last resort when attempting to subdue someone.