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Did everyone forget that Ukraine was happily shelling the Kakhovka dam last year and that every western media outlet was reporting on it[1]? It's sort of a rhe

Did everyone forget that Ukraine was happily shelling the Kakhovka dam last year and that every western media outlet was reporting on it[1]? It's sort of a rhetorical question, since the answer is clearly yes, but come on, we sit here talking like we know everything better than everyone else, about the world, about policy and everything else in general, yet we constantly forget things that happened only a couple of months ago? Russians did this because Russians are crazy evil beings that like to destroy their own shit. Really? I understand that sort of reasoning coming from the media outlets that gave us the Iraq war amongst other things, but hacker news? Is that what we pride ourselves in? [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraines-russian-held-nova-kakhovka-dam-damaged-shelling-russian-media-2022-11-06/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraines-russian-held-n... EDIT: Just to add to this, did people also forget that the nuclear power plant was shelled by "someone" while Russia was occupying it and IAEA inspectors were observing?[2] And that even the IAEA director general ended up refuting claims/lies[3] by Zelensky about mining the power plant[4]. [2] https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2022/11/20/russia-ukraine-live-ukraine-implements-planned-blackout https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2022/11/20/russia-uk... [3] https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/the-interview/20230629-iaea-saw-no-evidence-moscow-planning-attack-on-zaporizhia-nuclear-plant-but-anything-can-happen https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/the-interview/20230629-... [4] https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/russia-sabotage-nuclear-power-plant-halt-ukraine-zelenskyy/story?id=100776623 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/russia-sabotage-nuclear-powe...

pmfgpmfg 3y ago
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Theodores 3y ago
I think the question has to be asked - who benefits? It is like Nordstream where we are supposed to believe the Russians did it. Yet they controlled the taps to it and had no benefit from blowing it up. I read a lot of information from the Russian side and we clearly have two truths regarding the Kakhovka Dam. The Russians understand that the Kiev regime did it. Furthermore, if you look at the graph of the water level in the lake, the Kiev regime released water from upstream to deliberately top it up so they could blow it up and sweep away all of the Russian armed forces downstream in the Kherson area. People that only get their news from one side - the NATO side - are not aware of how the Russians understand what happened. I suspect these people are the ones that are modding you down, but sometimes getting down voted is worth it.
- euroderf 3y ago
  "Kiev regime" - interesting choice of term.
- pmfgpmfg 3y ago
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dralley 3y ago
The IAEA didn't refute anything, their statement was couched in tons of language like "from the areas we have seen" while also stating that they haven't been allowed to see all of the areas they wanted to see. Anyway, from the article in the OP "The destruction of the dam, Russian President Vladimir Putin said in a news conference a week after the event, "ruined their counteroffensive in this direction." It was a comment that didn’t fit particularly well with his claim that the Ukrainians had destroyed the dam themselves."
- petre 3y ago
  It's just like with the little green men who invaded Crimea: 2014: "It isn't us, you can go to the store and buy any uniforms." 2015: "That’s why I gave orders to the Defense Ministry -- why hide it? -- to deploy special forces of the GRU as well as marines and commandos there under the guise of reinforcing security for our military facilities in Crimea." 2023: “I want to point out and I want everyone to know about it: The maintenance of the entire Wagner Group was fully provided for by the state.”
  - rjzzleep 3y ago
    I think you ought to look up the UN security council resolution 2202 (2015)[1] by which the Minsk agreements became part of international law. Fun trivia fact for you, in 2014 in multiple cities Ukranian soldiers defected to the east and took loads of military equipment with them[2]. Of course history has been conveniently written the entire last year. [1] https://press.un.org/en/2015/sc11785.doc.htm https://press.un.org/en/2015/sc11785.doc.htm [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20140420132508/https://www.chron.com/news/world/article/Combat-vehicles-in-east-Ukraine-fly-Russian-flag-5405860.php#photo-6173861 https://web.archive.org/web/20140420132508/https://www.chron...
    - petre 3y ago
      Putin never wanted peace through the Mink agreements, he only wanted to buy time. But US and the UK weren't wasting time either. "Amid rising tensions between Russia and Ukraine in early 2022, Russia officially recognised the DPR and LPR on 21 February 2022.[9] Following that decision, on 22 February 2022, Russian President Vladimir Putin declared that the Minsk agreements "no longer existed", and that Ukraine, not Russia, was to blame for their collapse.[10] Russia then invaded Ukraine on 24 February 2022." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements
petre 3y ago
They shelled the road above it, as opposed to blowing up the engine room where only Russians had access. It's pretty clear who did it, but you can wait 50 years until the CIA report about it is declassified if you want to be absolutely sure.
helpfulContrib 3y ago
>shelled by "someone" See, that is entirely the point. In the fog of war, unless someone takes responsibility for an action, we cannot be sure who performed that action. There is substantial reason to believe that covert Western operatives are also on the battleground. This is, after all, what those trillions of dollars of 'investment' each year, are all about .. however this equally valid suspicion is, tribally, also easily overlooked.

pmfgpmfg 3y ago

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Theodores 3y ago

I think the question has to be asked - who benefits? It is like Nordstream where we are supposed to believe the Russians did it. Yet they controlled the taps to it and had no benefit from blowing it up. I read a lot of information from the Russian side and we clearly have two truths regarding the Kakhovka Dam. The Russians understand that the Kiev regime did it. Furthermore, if you look at the graph of the water level in the lake, the Kiev regime released water from upstream to deliberately top it up so they could blow it up and sweep away all of the Russian armed forces downstream in the Kherson area. People that only get their news from one side - the NATO side - are not aware of how the Russians understand what happened. I suspect these people are the ones that are modding you down, but sometimes getting down voted is worth it.

euroderf 3y ago
"Kiev regime" - interesting choice of term.
pmfgpmfg 3y ago
[dead]

dralley 3y ago

The IAEA didn't refute anything, their statement was couched in tons of language like "from the areas we have seen" while also stating that they haven't been allowed to see all of the areas they wanted to see. Anyway, from the article in the OP "The destruction of the dam, Russian President Vladimir Putin said in a news conference a week after the event, "ruined their counteroffensive in this direction." It was a comment that didn’t fit particularly well with his claim that the Ukrainians had destroyed the dam themselves."

petre 3y ago
It's just like with the little green men who invaded Crimea: 2014: "It isn't us, you can go to the store and buy any uniforms." 2015: "That’s why I gave orders to the Defense Ministry -- why hide it? -- to deploy special forces of the GRU as well as marines and commandos there under the guise of reinforcing security for our military facilities in Crimea." 2023: “I want to point out and I want everyone to know about it: The maintenance of the entire Wagner Group was fully provided for by the state.”
- rjzzleep 3y ago
  I think you ought to look up the UN security council resolution 2202 (2015)[1] by which the Minsk agreements became part of international law. Fun trivia fact for you, in 2014 in multiple cities Ukranian soldiers defected to the east and took loads of military equipment with them[2]. Of course history has been conveniently written the entire last year. [1] https://press.un.org/en/2015/sc11785.doc.htm https://press.un.org/en/2015/sc11785.doc.htm [2] https://web.archive.org/web/20140420132508/https://www.chron.com/news/world/article/Combat-vehicles-in-east-Ukraine-fly-Russian-flag-5405860.php#photo-6173861 https://web.archive.org/web/20140420132508/https://www.chron...
  - petre 3y ago
    Putin never wanted peace through the Mink agreements, he only wanted to buy time. But US and the UK weren't wasting time either. "Amid rising tensions between Russia and Ukraine in early 2022, Russia officially recognised the DPR and LPR on 21 February 2022.[9] Following that decision, on 22 February 2022, Russian President Vladimir Putin declared that the Minsk agreements "no longer existed", and that Ukraine, not Russia, was to blame for their collapse.[10] Russia then invaded Ukraine on 24 February 2022." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements

petre 3y ago

They shelled the road above it, as opposed to blowing up the engine room where only Russians had access. It's pretty clear who did it, but you can wait 50 years until the CIA report about it is declassified if you want to be absolutely sure.

helpfulContrib 3y ago

>shelled by "someone" See, that is entirely the point. In the fog of war, unless someone takes responsibility for an action, we cannot be sure who performed that action. There is substantial reason to believe that covert Western operatives are also on the battleground. This is, after all, what those trillions of dollars of 'investment' each year, are all about .. however this equally valid suspicion is, tribally, also easily overlooked.