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> From the point of view of morality, I'm of the opinion that Russia did it. Even if Ukraine actually pulled the trigger. Are you talking about the war at larg
by xg15 3y ago
> From the point of view of morality, I'm of the opinion that Russia did it. Even if Ukraine actually pulled the trigger.
Are you talking about the war at large or about the specific question who blew up the dam?
I'd agree with the sibling comment here. In war, morality is always crystal clear for the parties that are at war - we are the good guys, the others are the bad guys. I'd go out on a limb and say this is almost a requirement to be able to fight a war in the first place: If you didn't think you are in the right, how would you even motivate your own troops to risk their lives for your cause?
Usually, when historians look back at the war later, they find the actual morality to be anything but clear.
> if you and your buddy get into someone's house to rob it in the middle of the night, and the homeowner gets his revolver and shoots your buddy dead, and you run out and the police catch you, it will be you that will be prosecuted for murder. You created the situation that led to the end result.
This isn't how it works. In this case, you have two separate crimes - robbery and murder - with two different perpetrators - the burglars and the homeowner.
The homeowner has a good chance that his charge will be dropped as a case of self-defence - but in no way would the robbers suddenly end up with a murder charge against themselves because they are "obviously" the bad guys.
(And by the way, the homeowner might in fact be prosecuted for murder if it turned out there was no self-defence situation and he just shot the robber out of rage.
You can use this to counter the russian argument too, btw: Even if you assume, for the sake of the argument, that Russia was threatened by an expanding NATO and by a militarized Ukraine, is it still "self-defence" to invade - and keep invading - a country, annexing land, attacking power stations and grain storage sites?)
- rich_sasha 3y agoI think it's hard to imagine a future historical context in which Russia is the goodie here.
- xg15 3y agoThen you should ask a few people from South American or African countries.
- rich_sasha 3y agoLike the ones who were buying food from Ukraine? Food that is either bombed by the Russians, or stuck in a port under a Russian blockade? I mean, admittedly, some of the grain the Russians stole and are trying to sell it on. Is that the Good Samaritan points?
- xg15 3y agoFully agreed here - just that, from what I understand so far, the global south countries are interested in ending the war as soon as possible, with little regard to the conditions - because the longer the war will go on, the further the food crisis will worsen for them. In contrast, Ukraine and the West are interested in a full Ukrainian victory, even if it takes a long time. So the interests are not completely aligned here.
- helpfulContrib 3y agoOr rather, ask the Iraqi or Afghani or Syrian or Libyan or Somalian, or Yemeni people, if they think the US and the West are the 'good guys'. This is purile argumentation. The West, by statistic, are not the good guys. Neither are Russia. The closest 'good guys' we've got are nations like Austria, who only send their military for the purpose of observing the war crimes of the other belligerents...