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What is crazy is how Apple was able to steal the thunder from all, intel, amd, qualcomm, etc. I really wish the PC (non-apple) world steps up, because I don't l
by kwanbix 3y ago
What is crazy is how Apple was able to steal the thunder from all, intel, amd, qualcomm, etc. I really wish the PC (non-apple) world steps up, because I don't like macOS at all, and I don't like to pay the Apple prices either.
- neolefty 3y agoIt is so crazy how good they are. I love my Apple hardware (M1 Max, four external displays FTW) and tolerate my Apple software (Mac OS).
- dartos 3y agoThis. Apple just makes the physically best laptops
- kwanbix 3y agoCannot disagree more. ThinkPads are the best laptops (not counting the M1/M2 CPU).
- dartos 3y agoI had a Lenovo think pad in 2013 for school. Carried it all over campus for 1 year. So unless their build quality is entirely different nowadays, I’ll never go near another thinkpad It started literally falling apart in 6 months. One of the usb ports stopped working, the disc tray was stuck, the bottom left of the trackpad was sunken in, and the whole laptop felt cheap and was plastic. A ton of flex in the whole thing. The worst experience I had with an aluminum mac was dropping it while open and having the screen shatter.
- conkeisterdoor 3y agoI've had a ThinkPad 13 2G for about 6 years and it's still working fine, but it most likely didn't get the same level of use/wear that yours did. It's a shame that IBM sold its PC business to Lenovo. Maybe it's just the model I have, but Lenovo's ThinkPads feel so much worse in quality than IBM's ThinkPads. I probably won't get another one when the time comes to replace mine.
- retrocryptid 3y agoThis is the problem with ThinkPad, there are several models with varying price and durability values. Macs are great for people who don't want to think about their requirements.
- ahartmetz 3y ago"Consumer" Thinkpads can be pretty crap. That said, I'll consider a Framework or Starbook next time because even T series Thinkpads are getting thinner and bendier and the keyboards lower and worse.
- kwanbix 3y agoI don't know what ThinkPad you had, but I have had ThinkPads for more than 12 years, working daily, had let them fall on the ground (had to change screen twice), and they still work. There are companies that buy ThinkPads from banks, big companies, after 4 years of use, and they re-sell them and they work for another 10 or more years. Your experience is very weird.
- snvzz 3y agoIf I recall correctly, only T/X/W series are what most consider actual Thinkpads. There's a bunch of other series that are newer, consumer-oriented and do not share the body or traits that the Thinkpad series is reputable for. That said, if I was in the market for a laptop today, I'd look at Framework.
- xNeil 3y agoYou're talking about best laptops. Parent said physically best. I don't think the answer is subjective - Apple most definitely makes far better laptops physically. The M2 Air is astonishingly light, while being made of metal, as opposed to the ThinkPad's (cheap imo, but subject to debate) plastic. Don't see what the argument is.
- retrocryptid 3y agoMy experience with airs is if you try to compile anything with them, the CPU cores peg, the fans go crazy, cpu throttles. (This was with an intel-based air.) My point isn't that Airs are bad, but that they're not ideal for some tasks and saying any machine is "the best" without mentioning what you're using it for is less useful of a statement than you might think it is.
- KerrAvon 3y agoThe Apple Silicon Mac Book Airs are a totally different beast. The Intel ones were unbearably slow for heavy computing tasks. The new architecture is really fast and doesn’t get very hot while being really fast.
- retrocryptid 3y agoRe-read my comment. It's not about the ARM macs. It's about the intel macs.
- jdietrich 3y agoIt depends on your definition of "physically best". Which is better, a Ferrari Daytona or a Ford F-150? Macs are sleek and elegant, but they're built with absolutely no regard for long-term serviceability. Thinkpads are big ugly slabs of black plastic, but they're easy to open, they have a sensible internal layout and Lenovo provide service manuals and spare parts.
- ilyt 3y agoThinkpads (say X1 Carbon) are physically better. Thin doesn't appeal to me, it's disadvantage. Ergonomy is better too. Just CPUs are worse.
- retrocryptid 3y agoWe used to get 40-50 MBPs per week. About 10% were DOA. Good news is they have a very decent support process.
- kwanbix 3y agoI really admire the M1/M2 and the quality that Apple puts into everything they do, that said: * I think metal is a horrible material for laptops (I rather have plastic/carbon as in ThinkPads), * non-mate screens really suck (they only look good in pictures), * and I barely tolerate macOS when I have to use it. But for me, the worst part is the non-choice. In the PC world, you can choose 10000 different PCs. Again, I really admire the M1/M2, and the quality of apple products. But I returned an M1 on my previous job because of what I said above, and went to a ThinkPad X1 Carbon.
- shawnz 3y agoDon't thinkpads use magnesium chassis?
- retrocryptid 3y agoJust don't buy that model. Mine is some form of hard plastic.
- MobiusHorizons 3y agoYes, at least older models do, but it’s in the inside. The outside is plastic. This provides the rigidity with a softer outer finish.
- steve1977 3y agoI think choice is a double edged sword, especially when it comes to building your own PC. Yes, you can choose between many many components, but you also have to choose between them. Apple is a bit like a pre-curated menu.
- fooker 3y agoMetal is pretty great for a laptop that doesn't get too hot.
- kwanbix 3y agoI don't know. I have used many Macbooks, and I really don't like it.
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y agoQualcomm essentially bought the team that created those designs, so it's possible that Qualcomm catches up or exceeds them (although I'm not holding my breath). That's probably why ARM is suing them, they potentially could create designs that make ARM's designs obsolete and are likely to take ARM's market (unlike Apple).
- ksec 3y agoThat is the case at all. If ARM were given the same die size budget as Apple's CPU I doubt the difference would be what they are today. Worth pointing out (again) all the ARM Cortex-X design are nearly half the die size as Apple's Performance Core. ARM suing them was simply because they are using a contract tailored for Server market and using it in Smartphone.
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y agoBut ARM tailors their contracts exactly to avoid competition with their own products, I think they've stated that in this lawsuit. Either way, it's bad when the ISA owner is limiting what you can develop to suit its own profits. This is the problem RISC-V solves.
- 0xDEF 3y agoApple is ridiculously far ahead of the competition in terms of performance per watt.
- smoldesu 3y agoNot insurmountably, though. Performance-per-watt wise, their GPUs seem to be a full generation behind Nvidia's options. A laptop-spec 3080 regularly beats the M2 Ultra at the same wattage, which is a bit of a head-scratcher considering the node disparity. It looks like Apple's biggest lead is the TSMC node advantage and their ARM license. And they're not the only ones with access to TSMC fabs and ARM specifications...
- fooker 3y ago> at the same wattage That max wattage of the 3080 laptop variant (just the GPU) is ~5x of Apple's CPU and GPU combined.
- smoldesu 3y agoI don't think that's quite right: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213100 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213100 For reference, I'm using OpenCL and raster benchmarks from Blender to draw my comparison. Seems like the fairest common ground: https://browser.geekbench.com/opencl-benchmarks https://browser.geekbench.com/opencl-benchmarks https://opendata.blender.org/benchmarks/query/?group_by=device_name&blender_version=3.6.0 https://opendata.blender.org/benchmarks/query/?group_by=devi...
- AnthonyMouse 3y agoApple Silicon made a big splash because they were the first on TSMC 5nm and got compared to AMD on TSMC 7nm. Now that we've seen 5nm Ryzen it's basically the same, AMD uses a somewhat higher max TDP and correspondingly gets higher multi-thread performance.
- pjmlp 3y agoStill meaningless for large part of the world, with 80% desktop, 100% servers, 100% embedded and 70% of mobile market using non-Apple hardware.
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoIndeed. I get the feeling HN can't see the world past their Apple devices.
- retrocryptid 3y agoAnyone can post, and there are a lot of fanbois of all stripes here. I think there are plenty of non-apple fans here, they just (largely) don't dogpile on things they don't like. Or at least that's how I read the posting guidelines. In other words, if like me, you roll your eyes every time apple announces some "innovative" new feature other platforms have had for years, just let the fans have their moment.
- KerrAvon 3y agoI would bet a significantly larger percentage of posters here use Apple devices than does the general population. A lot of the population just buys the cheapest thing that claims to do what they want.
- retrocryptid 3y agoThough I would be surprised to find @KerrAvon does not use an Or*c. ;-)
- dmonitor 3y agoI think it comes from a place of frustration. Apple makes this amazing hardware with great software that just oozes with great UX design, but they arbitrarily limit what you can do with them.
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- ilyt 3y ago[flagged]