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> The International was heavily advertised on Steam products. Which is the biggest gaming store. The biggest gaming store is almost certainly the Android Googl

> The International was heavily advertised on Steam products. Which is the biggest gaming store. The biggest gaming store is almost certainly the Android Google Play Store's gaming section. It also wouldn't surprise me if the nintendo eShop is larger than the steam store, but at the very least I'm very confident in Google Play and iOS app stores being larger than steam for games. I think the majority of gamers have never played a PC game or watched esports. The parent post only said "I even played games", and you jumped to "watching esports" and "twitch". Watching esports is a tiny niche of gamers. Watching twitch also is.

ufo 3y ago
And to add to that, Dota e-sports is particularly insular among other e-sports: https://blog.twitch.tv/en/2015/02/04/visual-mapping-of-twitch-and-our-communities-cause-science-2f5ad212c3da/ https://blog.twitch.tv/en/2015/02/04/visual-mapping-of-twitc...
- doikor 3y ago
  Dota players play/watch Dota. Similar thing also applies to country strike players. At least this is the experience in my circle of friends. Got a couple friends who have pretty much only played Dota (or CS) for the last 15+ years and have 0 interest in even trying any other game. There is also the crowd (including me) who play video games in general but these are very clearly different groups. So this is like saying "football fans are insular to football". I mean yeah they are football fans not "sports fans".
  - Retric 3y ago
    Most football fans I know watch other sports, often basketball. If for no other reason than the season is fairly short. Dora is insular in large part because it’s always available.
    - doikor 3y ago
      I think it also has a lot to do with it being much easier to actually play the sport/game. When the pros are not playing you can just play yourself. With football/etc playing the game in a proper competitive setup is quite the hassle. In Dota or CS you just get 4 of your friends and press a button and in 2 to 3 minutes you are playing.
dubcanada 3y ago
That's the point, if you don't know about any esport, why would you know about this one? If you do know about esports then you know about The International. But let's also say that The International was on ESPN, and other "sports" TV channels.
- camtarn 3y ago
  I watched Overwatch tourneys on Twitch for a bit. And I played a little bit of League of Legends so MOBAs aren't entirely foreign to me. Didn't know about The International - I had to go look it up. The world is stranger than you might believe.
Unfrozen0688 3y ago
Mobile games are not real games.
- kibwen 3y ago
  I assume this is being downvoted because arguments like this are usually either no-true-scotsmanning or borne out of elitism. However, what is true is that "video games" are so variegated as a medium that it's probably worth splitting it up into multiple mediums, in the same way that television, short film, and feature film are all considered different mediums despite being largely the same in many ways. If The Godfather and Caillou are different mediums, then Red Dead Redemption and Candy Crash can also be different mediums.
  - raisedbyninjas 3y ago
    It's not that candy crush and other casual games aren't real games. It's that the modern versions currently in the app stores aren't games. Original versions of candy crush, angry birds, etc. have been removed. What is available now are time-gated gem stores. Maybe 1% of titles aren't reskinned clones that can be played more than 5 minutes straight.
flangola7 3y ago
No self respecting gamer calls mobile apps true games. No one who gets excited about video game development wants to work on candy crush v400
- ricardobeat 3y ago
  You might think that, but the “not self respecting” mobile and console gamers out there outnumber you 3:1. Some of the most popular games have been PUBG, Fortnite, Rainbow Six, Roblox… I don’t play on mobile myself but you can’t deny this new reality.
  - Ntrails 3y ago
    The growth of mobile gaming in regions that used to be dominated by LAN cafe based gaming is super interesting. Most of the previously buzzing gaming hubs died during covid. PC Gaming equipment is extortionate, even in higher net worth areas, phones are ubiquitous anyway
    - danhor 3y ago
      High-end equipment certainly increased sharply in price in the last few years, but few people gaming on PC spend anywhere near that amount of money. If you just went to play most games on a reasonable framerate (30fps) a Steam Deck for 400$ is perfectly fine. For those with high-resolution screens and 144fps the equipment is not affordable to most but not necessary. But an already existing phone is cheaper for sure
  - bigstrat2003 3y ago
    Don't just sneak "console gamers" in there, that's disingenuous when the GP didn't say anything about them. Anyways, statistics aside he's right. Mobile games aren't the same thing as console/PC games. They are, almost without exception, thinly veiled monetization machines designed to be almost fun but not actually fun, just so you will pay money. They are literally designed to be less fun as a business strategy. There are games on real gaming platforms which are just as exploitative and poorly designed, but they are the exception. With mobile games they are the rule. Given that the nature of the markets is so wildly different, it's perfectly reasonably to say "no, these are different things".

ufo 3y ago

And to add to that, Dota e-sports is particularly insular among other e-sports: https://blog.twitch.tv/en/2015/02/04/visual-mapping-of-twitch-and-our-communities-cause-science-2f5ad212c3da/ https://blog.twitch.tv/en/2015/02/04/visual-mapping-of-twitc...

doikor 3y ago
Dota players play/watch Dota. Similar thing also applies to country strike players. At least this is the experience in my circle of friends. Got a couple friends who have pretty much only played Dota (or CS) for the last 15+ years and have 0 interest in even trying any other game. There is also the crowd (including me) who play video games in general but these are very clearly different groups. So this is like saying "football fans are insular to football". I mean yeah they are football fans not "sports fans".
- Retric 3y ago
  Most football fans I know watch other sports, often basketball. If for no other reason than the season is fairly short. Dora is insular in large part because it’s always available.
  - doikor 3y ago
    I think it also has a lot to do with it being much easier to actually play the sport/game. When the pros are not playing you can just play yourself. With football/etc playing the game in a proper competitive setup is quite the hassle. In Dota or CS you just get 4 of your friends and press a button and in 2 to 3 minutes you are playing.

dubcanada 3y ago

That's the point, if you don't know about any esport, why would you know about this one? If you do know about esports then you know about The International. But let's also say that The International was on ESPN, and other "sports" TV channels.

camtarn 3y ago
I watched Overwatch tourneys on Twitch for a bit. And I played a little bit of League of Legends so MOBAs aren't entirely foreign to me. Didn't know about The International - I had to go look it up. The world is stranger than you might believe.

Unfrozen0688 3y ago

Mobile games are not real games.

kibwen 3y ago
I assume this is being downvoted because arguments like this are usually either no-true-scotsmanning or borne out of elitism. However, what is true is that "video games" are so variegated as a medium that it's probably worth splitting it up into multiple mediums, in the same way that television, short film, and feature film are all considered different mediums despite being largely the same in many ways. If The Godfather and Caillou are different mediums, then Red Dead Redemption and Candy Crash can also be different mediums.
- raisedbyninjas 3y ago
  It's not that candy crush and other casual games aren't real games. It's that the modern versions currently in the app stores aren't games. Original versions of candy crush, angry birds, etc. have been removed. What is available now are time-gated gem stores. Maybe 1% of titles aren't reskinned clones that can be played more than 5 minutes straight.

flangola7 3y ago

No self respecting gamer calls mobile apps true games. No one who gets excited about video game development wants to work on candy crush v400

ricardobeat 3y ago
You might think that, but the “not self respecting” mobile and console gamers out there outnumber you 3:1. Some of the most popular games have been PUBG, Fortnite, Rainbow Six, Roblox… I don’t play on mobile myself but you can’t deny this new reality.
- Ntrails 3y ago
  The growth of mobile gaming in regions that used to be dominated by LAN cafe based gaming is super interesting. Most of the previously buzzing gaming hubs died during covid. PC Gaming equipment is extortionate, even in higher net worth areas, phones are ubiquitous anyway
  - danhor 3y ago
    High-end equipment certainly increased sharply in price in the last few years, but few people gaming on PC spend anywhere near that amount of money. If you just went to play most games on a reasonable framerate (30fps) a Steam Deck for 400$ is perfectly fine. For those with high-resolution screens and 144fps the equipment is not affordable to most but not necessary. But an already existing phone is cheaper for sure
- bigstrat2003 3y ago
  Don't just sneak "console gamers" in there, that's disingenuous when the GP didn't say anything about them. Anyways, statistics aside he's right. Mobile games aren't the same thing as console/PC games. They are, almost without exception, thinly veiled monetization machines designed to be almost fun but not actually fun, just so you will pay money. They are literally designed to be less fun as a business strategy. There are games on real gaming platforms which are just as exploitative and poorly designed, but they are the exception. With mobile games they are the rule. Given that the nature of the markets is so wildly different, it's perfectly reasonably to say "no, these are different things".