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I have watched with sadness as the NYTimes has self-destructed over the past couple decades. I think it comes down to two main reasons. 1. Tech lag/resistance.

by 23B1 3y ago

I have watched with sadness as the NYTimes has self-destructed over the past couple decades. I think it comes down to two main reasons. 1. Tech lag/resistance. They resisted digital transformation for too long and didn't understand what to do about that. By the time new media competitors had sucked up all their readers, it was too late and expectations around price and quality had shifted too much. The Times had plenty of opportunities BTW to partner with tech but were too arrogant/prideful. 2. Cultural irrelevance. The NYT is out of touch with the concerns and values of a significant portion of the American population. They were on their assess having completely missed the populist Trump movement in 2016, and made a putative apology as 'the newspaper of record'. They then promptly fired their public editor and said 'twitter was enough to gauge the cultural zeitgeist' lol. It used to be I could read the NYTimes, WSJ, and FT to feel sufficiently informed about the political & cultural issues I cared about. That is no longer the case.

mupuff1234 3y ago
The NYTimes stock is doing fairly well.
- 23B1 3y ago
  And so is Monsanto's and Nestle's and Exxon's.
- bdw5204 3y ago
  The main reason their stock has been doing well has been the role of Trump in driving hardcore blue party partisans into subscribing to paywalled media outlets like the NYT "to resist Trump". Until 2016/2017, pretty much all of legacy media was on a trajectory towards bankruptcy but that changed once Trump won the 2016 election.
afavour 3y ago
> By the time new media competitors had sucked up all their readers, it was too late and expectations around price and quality had shifted too much Isn’t NYT one of the most successful media businesses out there? Don’t get me wrong, the bar is low, but that’s because the entire industry was decimated by the internet. IIRC NYT was one of the first to pursue a paywall subscription model so in that sense you could argue they were far ahead of their competitors. > plenty of opportunities to partner with tech What were they? Genuinely curious. I can’t think of too many examples of media partnership with big tech that has ever worked out for the media company involved so I’m curious if the opportunities they turned down were ever worth it.
- 23B1 3y ago
  I worked there for two years. No they are not the most successful media business out there, and plenty of other entities were experimenting with and succeeding with paywalls long before the Times. The only reason they've benefitted in recent history was thanks to the hyper-polarization that happened after Trump's election, and they've definitely leaned into that. Re: other opportunities, the NYTimes has been approached by multiple tech companies including AAPL under Jobs' watch. An example of big tech/media partnership working out well comes from the related Pixar magic.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - afavour 3y ago
    Just going by stock price alone: before Jobs’ death NYT stock was around $8. Today it is around $40. We’ll never know the outcome of a Jobsian Apple partnership but I struggle to see what has happened as a mistake. Judging by stock price the company seems to be doing fine without President Trump (and their cooking, games etc seem like sensible diversifications) so again, difficult to see the failure. IMO a better comparison than Pixar is The Washington Post. Bought by Bezos, bundled with Prime membership etc… should have set the world alight. I thought it was game over for the likes of NYT. But doesn’t seem to have been that successful. These things feel far from guaranteed.
    - 23B1 3y ago
      Shareholder value is probably the last measurement I'd use when it comes to assessing the value of a company.
orangepurple 3y ago
Operation Mockingbird never ended. Full stop. (2010) https://weirdshit.blog/2010/07/23/cointelpro-operation-mockingbird/ https://weirdshit.blog/2010/07/23/cointelpro-operation-mocki...

by 23B1 3y ago

mupuff1234 3y ago

The NYTimes stock is doing fairly well.

23B1 3y ago
And so is Monsanto's and Nestle's and Exxon's.
bdw5204 3y ago
The main reason their stock has been doing well has been the role of Trump in driving hardcore blue party partisans into subscribing to paywalled media outlets like the NYT "to resist Trump". Until 2016/2017, pretty much all of legacy media was on a trajectory towards bankruptcy but that changed once Trump won the 2016 election.

afavour 3y ago

> By the time new media competitors had sucked up all their readers, it was too late and expectations around price and quality had shifted too much Isn’t NYT one of the most successful media businesses out there? Don’t get me wrong, the bar is low, but that’s because the entire industry was decimated by the internet. IIRC NYT was one of the first to pursue a paywall subscription model so in that sense you could argue they were far ahead of their competitors. > plenty of opportunities to partner with tech What were they? Genuinely curious. I can’t think of too many examples of media partnership with big tech that has ever worked out for the media company involved so I’m curious if the opportunities they turned down were ever worth it.

23B1 3y ago
I worked there for two years. No they are not the most successful media business out there, and plenty of other entities were experimenting with and succeeding with paywalls long before the Times. The only reason they've benefitted in recent history was thanks to the hyper-polarization that happened after Trump's election, and they've definitely leaned into that. Re: other opportunities, the NYTimes has been approached by multiple tech companies including AAPL under Jobs' watch. An example of big tech/media partnership working out well comes from the related Pixar magic.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- afavour 3y ago
  Just going by stock price alone: before Jobs’ death NYT stock was around $8. Today it is around $40. We’ll never know the outcome of a Jobsian Apple partnership but I struggle to see what has happened as a mistake. Judging by stock price the company seems to be doing fine without President Trump (and their cooking, games etc seem like sensible diversifications) so again, difficult to see the failure. IMO a better comparison than Pixar is The Washington Post. Bought by Bezos, bundled with Prime membership etc… should have set the world alight. I thought it was game over for the likes of NYT. But doesn’t seem to have been that successful. These things feel far from guaranteed.
  - 23B1 3y ago
    Shareholder value is probably the last measurement I'd use when it comes to assessing the value of a company.

orangepurple 3y ago

Operation Mockingbird never ended. Full stop. (2010) https://weirdshit.blog/2010/07/23/cointelpro-operation-mockingbird/ https://weirdshit.blog/2010/07/23/cointelpro-operation-mocki...