5 ms·

In typical Apple fanboy fashion they are oblivious to what Google has been doing for over two years now.

kkielhofner 3y ago
Apple put neural in their silicon a full four years before Google did: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/09/the-future-is-here-iphone-x/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/09/the-future-is-here-ip... https://blog.research.google/2021/11/improved-on-device-ml-on-pixel-6-with.html https://blog.research.google/2021/11/improved-on-device-ml-o... Apple has just been more methodical to the rest of the ecosystem - essentially waiting to understand use-cases before fully embracing it across their ecosystem from Apple Silicon in Mac with neural and `device=mps`, CoreML, and now more-or-less full force with their ML studio now in Xcode. Many apps didn't wait for this and Snapchat, as one example, has been successfully taking advantage of Apple Neural since the early early days. There are many reasons Apple has been the world's most valuable company for over a decade. One certainly is that they have a prescient ability to predict where the market is going, even if they have to use their ever-building position to drag things that way. As demonstrated by the facts and references I provided above, not to mention the iPhone essentially re-defining what a smartphone is way back when Blackberry was the current market leader.
- flangola7 3y ago
  How does Snapchat use it?
  - kkielhofner 3y ago
    https://qz.com/1005879/snapchat-quietly-revealed-how-it-can-put-ai-on-your-phone https://qz.com/1005879/snapchat-quietly-revealed-how-it-can-...
    - smoldesu 3y ago
      The linked paper makes no reference to CoreML or Apple in general. It seems to be CPU-accelerated on all platforms, iPhone included. Do you have another source that goes into Apple's implementation?
      - kkielhofner 3y ago
        I'm pretty fatigued on constantly providing references and sources in this thread but an example of what they've made availably publicly (second result Googling "snap coreml"): https://github.com/snap-research/EfficientFormer https://github.com/snap-research/EfficientFormer
        lern_too_spel 3y ago
        Your linked source says Snapchat has been using CoreML for neural network acceleration since 2022, which is not "since the early days" as you had originally claimed.
        kkielhofner 3y ago
        The link was provided to refute "Snap uses CPU". The repo is from 2022 but do you really think Snap publishes breaking code and papers on new, novel, and highly competitive functionality? The snap-research GH org wasn't even created until 2020. Do you really think they weren't doing anything before that because it's not on Github? This thread has been exhausting, I suspect due to the religious war that is Apple/Google. As I've said time and time again - if you're genuinely curious Google is your friend here and it takes seconds to find any number of apps, projects, etc using CoreML in 2017.
        lern_too_spel 3y ago
        It's bizarre how you keep refusing to acknowledge you were wrong. You made specific claims that were specifically refuted and now you're "yeah, butting" wildly to try to somehow win an argument you started by trying to find something else that Apple might be better at. As far as I'm concerned, the war has always (since the mid-80s) been Apple versus everybody else. Nobody else makes clearly wrong claims like the comment at the start of this thread. What yanks my chain is that Apple is against user control, and we as developers should be above falling for their marketing that they're first or best when they very clearly aren't.
- lern_too_spel 3y ago
  > Apple put neural in their silicon a full four years before Google did: You're confusing when Google started designing its own mobile SOC with when Android devices (including Google's) first started using neural network accelerators, which happened months earlier on Android than on iPhones. https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2017/01/tensorflow-machine-learning-now-optimized-snapdragon-835-and-hexagon-682-dsp https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2017/01/tensorflow-machine... As for GP's claim, Android has indeed had what the iPhone is now getting for two years: https://blog.research.google/2021/10/grammar-correction-as-you-type-on-pixel.html?m=1 https://blog.research.google/2021/10/grammar-correction-as-y...
  - kkielhofner 3y ago
    > You're confusing when Google started designing its own mobile SOC with when Android devices (including Google's) first started using neural network accelerators, which happened months earlier on Android than on iPhones. Apple (famously) doesn't announce until new functionality/devices are actually available. When they announce real people in the real world get it within a week if not less. A press release from Qualcomm that came a few months before Apple actually got it in people's hands only further demonstrates that Apple was working on this long before Qualcomm included it in the chipsets that lag on the market from Android device manufacturers. > As for GP's claim, Android has indeed had what the iPhone is now getting for two years You meant to say that Pixel had a variant at that time with Gboard. I'm not going to bother to do the research on Gboard on iOS but I suspect it was also available on iOS with Gboard at the same time or soon thereafter. If not that's on the Gboard team at Google for not supporting neural on iOS and Apple hardware that came far, far sooner. On a somewhat-negative Apple take they are infamous for being, ummm, "inspired by" successful apps and add-ons in terms of what makes it to iOS. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Gboard vs built-in iOS keyboard is another one of these cases.
    - lern_too_spel 3y ago
      > A press release from Qualcomm that came a few months before Apple actually got it in people's hands This press release was for a new Tensorflow release for devices that had been shipping for many months before that. It was in people's hands long before Apple even announced anything similar. > If not that's on the Gboard team at Google for not supporting neural on iOS and Apple hardware that came far, far sooner. Once again, Apple's hardware came later than Qualcomm's hardware. Pixel phones come with a lot of features that could be implemented on iOS, but why should Google go through the work of porting it only to promote a competitor's inferior platform? For example, Google Maps with navigation shipped years earlier on Android. Grammar check with a transformer model is now on all Android devices in Gboard (for more than a year and a half) and still no iOS devices.

Apple put neural in their silicon a full four years before Google did: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/09/the-future-is-here-iphone-x/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2017/09/the-future-is-here-ip... https://blog.research.google/2021/11/improved-on-device-ml-on-pixel-6-with.html https://blog.research.google/2021/11/improved-on-device-ml-o... Apple has just been more methodical to the rest of the ecosystem - essentially waiting to understand use-cases before fully embracing it across their ecosystem from Apple Silicon in Mac with neural and `device=mps`, CoreML, and now more-or-less full force with their ML studio now in Xcode. Many apps didn't wait for this and Snapchat, as one example, has been successfully taking advantage of Apple Neural since the early early days. There are many reasons Apple has been the world's most valuable company for over a decade. One certainly is that they have a prescient ability to predict where the market is going, even if they have to use their ever-building position to drag things that way. As demonstrated by the facts and references I provided above, not to mention the iPhone essentially re-defining what a smartphone is way back when Blackberry was the current market leader.

flangola7 3y ago
How does Snapchat use it?
- kkielhofner 3y ago
  https://qz.com/1005879/snapchat-quietly-revealed-how-it-can-put-ai-on-your-phone https://qz.com/1005879/snapchat-quietly-revealed-how-it-can-...
  - smoldesu 3y ago
    The linked paper makes no reference to CoreML or Apple in general. It seems to be CPU-accelerated on all platforms, iPhone included. Do you have another source that goes into Apple's implementation?
    - kkielhofner 3y ago
      I'm pretty fatigued on constantly providing references and sources in this thread but an example of what they've made availably publicly (second result Googling "snap coreml"): https://github.com/snap-research/EfficientFormer https://github.com/snap-research/EfficientFormer
      - lern_too_spel 3y ago
        Your linked source says Snapchat has been using CoreML for neural network acceleration since 2022, which is not "since the early days" as you had originally claimed.
        kkielhofner 3y ago
        The link was provided to refute "Snap uses CPU". The repo is from 2022 but do you really think Snap publishes breaking code and papers on new, novel, and highly competitive functionality? The snap-research GH org wasn't even created until 2020. Do you really think they weren't doing anything before that because it's not on Github? This thread has been exhausting, I suspect due to the religious war that is Apple/Google. As I've said time and time again - if you're genuinely curious Google is your friend here and it takes seconds to find any number of apps, projects, etc using CoreML in 2017.
        lern_too_spel 3y ago
        It's bizarre how you keep refusing to acknowledge you were wrong. You made specific claims that were specifically refuted and now you're "yeah, butting" wildly to try to somehow win an argument you started by trying to find something else that Apple might be better at. As far as I'm concerned, the war has always (since the mid-80s) been Apple versus everybody else. Nobody else makes clearly wrong claims like the comment at the start of this thread. What yanks my chain is that Apple is against user control, and we as developers should be above falling for their marketing that they're first or best when they very clearly aren't.
lern_too_spel 3y ago
> Apple put neural in their silicon a full four years before Google did: You're confusing when Google started designing its own mobile SOC with when Android devices (including Google's) first started using neural network accelerators, which happened months earlier on Android than on iPhones. https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2017/01/tensorflow-machine-learning-now-optimized-snapdragon-835-and-hexagon-682-dsp https://www.qualcomm.com/news/onq/2017/01/tensorflow-machine... As for GP's claim, Android has indeed had what the iPhone is now getting for two years: https://blog.research.google/2021/10/grammar-correction-as-you-type-on-pixel.html?m=1 https://blog.research.google/2021/10/grammar-correction-as-y...
- kkielhofner 3y ago
  > You're confusing when Google started designing its own mobile SOC with when Android devices (including Google's) first started using neural network accelerators, which happened months earlier on Android than on iPhones. Apple (famously) doesn't announce until new functionality/devices are actually available. When they announce real people in the real world get it within a week if not less. A press release from Qualcomm that came a few months before Apple actually got it in people's hands only further demonstrates that Apple was working on this long before Qualcomm included it in the chipsets that lag on the market from Android device manufacturers. > As for GP's claim, Android has indeed had what the iPhone is now getting for two years You meant to say that Pixel had a variant at that time with Gboard. I'm not going to bother to do the research on Gboard on iOS but I suspect it was also available on iOS with Gboard at the same time or soon thereafter. If not that's on the Gboard team at Google for not supporting neural on iOS and Apple hardware that came far, far sooner. On a somewhat-negative Apple take they are infamous for being, ummm, "inspired by" successful apps and add-ons in terms of what makes it to iOS. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Gboard vs built-in iOS keyboard is another one of these cases.
  - lern_too_spel 3y ago
    > A press release from Qualcomm that came a few months before Apple actually got it in people's hands This press release was for a new Tensorflow release for devices that had been shipping for many months before that. It was in people's hands long before Apple even announced anything similar. > If not that's on the Gboard team at Google for not supporting neural on iOS and Apple hardware that came far, far sooner. Once again, Apple's hardware came later than Qualcomm's hardware. Pixel phones come with a lot of features that could be implemented on iOS, but why should Google go through the work of porting it only to promote a competitor's inferior platform? For example, Google Maps with navigation shipped years earlier on Android. Grammar check with a transformer model is now on all Android devices in Gboard (for more than a year and a half) and still no iOS devices.