3 ms·

In General they do. But I disagree about your simpler is better point. I wouldn't want to have your average /pol/ User as part of my work if i can help it and i

by dtx1 3y ago

In General they do. But I disagree about your simpler is better point. I wouldn't want to have your average /pol/ User as part of my work if i can help it and it seems asking people to respect different gender and sexual identities is a great filter for toxic conservative edgelords.

MrYellowP 3y ago
Simpler is better, though. People's ideas of themselves shouldn't be the new "I'm vegan, btw" and forcing everyone to know and care about your idea of yourself is fucking bullshit, because nobody cares and the topic is something else. It's extremely narcistic to believe that everyone needs to care about how you think of yourself. I don't respect your gender and sexual identity simply because I don't care, it's none of my business.
- dtx1 3y ago
  > I don't respect your gender and sexual identity simply because I don't care, it's none of my business. And that's why it should filter you. I can respect someones idea of themselves and their gender or sexual identity precisely because I don't care. Working with People as opposed to working with machines requires accepting their individuality in a lot of facets. I personally am disgusted by religion and religious ideology, yet I can work with people even if they are believers, because I respect them as human beings.
  - justusw 3y ago
    Reminds me of the old I’m color blind, I don’t see race trope. Recognizing where someone is coming from, even if you don’t personally like it, that’s a basic requirement for communication. Those instance where people complain about misgendering? That’s not when someone accidentally uses the wrong pronoun. It’s when a person purposefully ignores someone else’s wishes and calls them in a way that is hurtful. To me saying it’s just messages in a bug tracker, and identity doesn’t matter, that person can’t be serious. I feel we have to learn this lesson over and over again.
    - dj_rappist 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - justusw 3y ago
        This is what I love about the internet: to anything you can write you can get the most enlightened or insane response. I hope that years later, your response will end up on the right side of these two. (Provided this lands on some kind of internet archive)
      - jmye 3y ago
        “John may desire to be called John, but he can’t realistically expect people won’t call him Bob just because he says it’s not his name.” Sorry, this is nonsense. That you think John should be called Bob has nothing to do with your view on personal identity - it’s just you being an asshole because you think your politics are the most important thing in the world.
        dj_rappist 3y ago
        "John may desire to be referred to as if he's 6'6" in height, despite being only 5'1", but he can't realistically expect everyone else to comply with this if he requests it." For the understanding of most people, being a woman or a man isn't an identity, but is a fact of material biological reality. The belief system around 'gender identity' has fairly niche acceptance on a global scale, even in countries where it is being heavily evangelized.
        jmye 3y ago
        I’m just unclear why you care. John wants to be called John. He also would prefer you refer to him as a “him”. Neither takes any effort whatsoever, and both are entirely polite. Neither requires anything from you that you wouldn’t otherwise be doing. Refusal literally reads as an obstinate and intentional desire to be an asshole solely for the sake of being an asshole.
      - a3_nm 3y ago
Nevermark 3y ago
I feel the opposite, although I may be wrong. But making a strong statement about the basics covers everything, and treats every bodies dignity at the same level. Example: 1. Treat everyone with respect, regardless of differences 2. Treat everyone’s perspectives constructively, regardless of whether you agree with them 3. Consider honing your communication skills here. Fewer posts of increasing quality helps our community here, and increases your power in life everywhere. Or something like that It seems clear to me that would cover gender issues, but the point is don’t bully anyone is a stronger statement —- May be wrong but I have been thinking about this topic of specific vs general ethics communication a lot lately Someone having trouble processing what gender identities mean can still learn to treat people with respect, without having to feel like they are being told what to think. Picking up a habit of respectful treatment of people you don’t ever understand or agree with, explicitly independent of any specifics, is important in itself.
- dtx1 3y ago
  You are probably correct in principle but I guess it's more of a practical thing. People that are bothered by respecting other peoples gender identity aren't going to be swayed by these principled arguments. It's simply more practical to just filter them with a few specific keywords and not have to deal with them, those that stay aren't likely to become a problem.
  - Nevermark 3y ago
    You are also filtering out people who have trouble with that topic, but would see the sense in uniform respect. But I am speaking out of interest here, not experience So your point is well taken

by dtx1 3y ago

MrYellowP 3y ago

Simpler is better, though. People's ideas of themselves shouldn't be the new "I'm vegan, btw" and forcing everyone to know and care about your idea of yourself is fucking bullshit, because nobody cares and the topic is something else. It's extremely narcistic to believe that everyone needs to care about how you think of yourself. I don't respect your gender and sexual identity simply because I don't care, it's none of my business.

dtx1 3y ago
> I don't respect your gender and sexual identity simply because I don't care, it's none of my business. And that's why it should filter you. I can respect someones idea of themselves and their gender or sexual identity precisely because I don't care. Working with People as opposed to working with machines requires accepting their individuality in a lot of facets. I personally am disgusted by religion and religious ideology, yet I can work with people even if they are believers, because I respect them as human beings.
- justusw 3y ago
  Reminds me of the old I’m color blind, I don’t see race trope. Recognizing where someone is coming from, even if you don’t personally like it, that’s a basic requirement for communication. Those instance where people complain about misgendering? That’s not when someone accidentally uses the wrong pronoun. It’s when a person purposefully ignores someone else’s wishes and calls them in a way that is hurtful. To me saying it’s just messages in a bug tracker, and identity doesn’t matter, that person can’t be serious. I feel we have to learn this lesson over and over again.
  - dj_rappist 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - justusw 3y ago
      This is what I love about the internet: to anything you can write you can get the most enlightened or insane response. I hope that years later, your response will end up on the right side of these two. (Provided this lands on some kind of internet archive)
    - jmye 3y ago
      “John may desire to be called John, but he can’t realistically expect people won’t call him Bob just because he says it’s not his name.” Sorry, this is nonsense. That you think John should be called Bob has nothing to do with your view on personal identity - it’s just you being an asshole because you think your politics are the most important thing in the world.
      - dj_rappist 3y ago
        "John may desire to be referred to as if he's 6'6" in height, despite being only 5'1", but he can't realistically expect everyone else to comply with this if he requests it." For the understanding of most people, being a woman or a man isn't an identity, but is a fact of material biological reality. The belief system around 'gender identity' has fairly niche acceptance on a global scale, even in countries where it is being heavily evangelized.
        jmye 3y ago
        I’m just unclear why you care. John wants to be called John. He also would prefer you refer to him as a “him”. Neither takes any effort whatsoever, and both are entirely polite. Neither requires anything from you that you wouldn’t otherwise be doing. Refusal literally reads as an obstinate and intentional desire to be an asshole solely for the sake of being an asshole.
    - a3_nm 3y ago

Nevermark 3y ago

I feel the opposite, although I may be wrong. But making a strong statement about the basics covers everything, and treats every bodies dignity at the same level. Example: 1. Treat everyone with respect, regardless of differences 2. Treat everyone’s perspectives constructively, regardless of whether you agree with them 3. Consider honing your communication skills here. Fewer posts of increasing quality helps our community here, and increases your power in life everywhere. Or something like that It seems clear to me that would cover gender issues, but the point is don’t bully anyone is a stronger statement —- May be wrong but I have been thinking about this topic of specific vs general ethics communication a lot lately Someone having trouble processing what gender identities mean can still learn to treat people with respect, without having to feel like they are being told what to think. Picking up a habit of respectful treatment of people you don’t ever understand or agree with, explicitly independent of any specifics, is important in itself.

dtx1 3y ago
You are probably correct in principle but I guess it's more of a practical thing. People that are bothered by respecting other peoples gender identity aren't going to be swayed by these principled arguments. It's simply more practical to just filter them with a few specific keywords and not have to deal with them, those that stay aren't likely to become a problem.
- Nevermark 3y ago
  You are also filtering out people who have trouble with that topic, but would see the sense in uniform respect. But I am speaking out of interest here, not experience So your point is well taken