6 ms·

Why everything you buy is worse now [video]

78 points by mikhael 3y ago

an_aparallel 3y ago
my complimentary add on to this : "why my whole studio is discontinued and obsolete" :-) I've found discontinued products in particular (by chance) almost a sign of a product which had tonnes of R&D poured into it, then, was deemed too expensive by the company.
nuancebydefault 3y ago
For consumer electronics, i believe the quality and durability is only increasing for the same price. I think this is because the rate of feature increase has slowed down, giving more breath to quality and durability. For example gorilla glass is almost standard, and it improves as well. On the other hand for clothing, it is clear that the quality decreases, like was shown in the video, because people buy more often. It gets out of fashion very fast anyway. Fashionability is bad for the environment. For electro mechanical devices, like coffee machines or printers, they suffer from addition of electronic features (like better ui or more features in one device) that mainly tend to add comfort but at the cost of more possible points of failure.
say_it_as_it_is 3y ago
They left out the most important category, profits. Cut functional costs to improve margins. Do less with lower quality machines and labor.
thelastgallon 3y ago
The enshittification of everything! https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/enshittification https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/enshittification A few days back there was a discussion on HN, The Tyranny of the Marginal User[1]. This applies to products. Products are made worse, advertised as great deals using all kinds of psychological tricks (Eg: discounting tricks in Austria discussed today in HN.), influencers, wellness peddlers, bloggers, podcasters, etc. Everyone, everywhere, everything, all the time is about buying stuff! See Temu, how it gamified shopping, bringing in game app store pressure tactics to shopping. People complain all the time about how things are costly or getting costlier or shrinkflation, but it doesn't stop anyone from buying, which leads me to think most people have too much money and have zero discretion on what to buy. A while back, people used to back away from buying stuff which they thought wasn't a great deal. But something has changed in the past few years, anybody can make any garbage and people will buy it! Think about cars: most everyone bought cars a few thousand below MSRP, but now undiscerning people have proven to manufacturers and dealers that they will buy whatever crap car is made at 50% markup. There is no selection pressure on manufacturers to make good stuff. [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37509507 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37509507 [2]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37532973 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37532973
- 5350-uiop-1130 3y ago
  > most people have too much money and have zero discretion on what to buy I've noticed that people seem to expect less from things nowadays. In video games, they're okay with spending a lot of money on cosmetic skins. Even big companies like Apple advertise features like sending animated cat emojis as a big deal. I find it a bit strange, but some people really like and defend them. It's just how things are changing in the world.
thelastgallon 3y ago
Another reason why things are worse and they will keep getting worse. About a toaster company: "If you are passionate about toast, you will not work at a company that does not build toasters, that only does marketing. So my central thesis here is that if as an organization, you outsource too much with the idea that we will still retain the designers and our own power to innovate, it will not actually work. The smart people will not work for your company, because you have turned into a marketing and financing exercise. And the smart engineers, they want to build better toasters, they want to touch actual stuff. So the thing is, there is a point of no return. If as a company you have outsourced too much. No good engineer will still want to work for your company." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37540271 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37540271
- Spivak 3y ago
  And honestly this doesn't even have to be an allegory to something else, this is literally true about the toaster market right now. There are so few companies that actually design and manufacture toasters themselves. I ended up buying vintage because it turns out technological advancement has been directed to finding and building an ever more minimal viable toaster to keep prices sorrrrta constant under inflation. So that 80's-90's toaster is delivering value right now.
  - thelastparadise 3y ago
    > So that 80's-90's toaster is delivering value right now. This is such a nice (and accurate) way to look at it. Imputed value. I'm interested to hear about the rest of your setup: espresso machine, clothes washer, car?
  - Doxin 3y ago
    Man, trying to find a toaster that will evenly toast a slice of tall loaf (which is the default bread where I'm at) is like pulling teeth. I've settled for one that toasts one side much more quickly than the other and resorted to flipping the bread around halfway through. It's much larger than I'd like though since it's built for 4 regular slices. That way I can fit two and two half slices of tall loaf. Can I just pay someone $50 for a toaster that actually works please?
AwaAwa 3y ago
Oddly enough all the companies are more 'carbon friendly' and advertise it. Yet the cycle from consumer hands to trash is faster than ever. I suppose its one of those things that you won't get paid to study, but have a high chance of receiving pain for any such stufy. In hindsight seems like Capone, being commoner friendly.
aaron695 3y ago
[dead]
insickness 3y ago
This is another reason why I love vintage clothes so much: if the item survived ten or twenty years, it can more likely survive years longer than the average item manufactured nowadays.
pyinstallwoes 3y ago
I think the solution is more DIY, build your stuff. Somewhat similar to the boom/boon of Modular eurorack. There’s tons of people creating things, even open-source, and selling the circuits fully assembled or packaged for DIY at lower costs. I fundamentally believe that the human being requires designing their environment. This is also why cities in their current configuration may be such an anti-pattern with the trajectory of dystopian qualities; it is absurdly difficult for any human in a city to modify their environment in such a way it is the product of their inspiration and function. Tl:dr I think people value things less when they don’t directly build it.
freefaler 3y ago
To save you some time the main point of the video is - market drives prices down, because people want cheaper things and buy them more frequently, because it's easier to target people and cheaper to outsource production. And most people really don't care about the quality part that much. Regarding personal consumption I'd use Total Cost of Ownership equation. Need a screwdriver 3 times a year - no need to buy something very good. Need a keyboard for you computer and you're a programmer - buy the best you can, because your hands are irreplaceable. But you don't need a fancy laptop stand - a box and couple of books can do the thing (if you don't mind the ugly desk). With the money saved you can always just invest them and get them working or spend them on something more meaningful like health, socializing or whatever you like.
GoToRO 3y ago
The way I saw it work: A part for a car is prototyped. The prototype is tested and it comes out that it can last 30 years. But bussiness said it only needs to last 15 years (user use stats, the law). Prototype is redesigned so that it is weaker and also cheaper (often time not by much). So we have this problem because companies have test equipment that can tell them exactlly how long a product will last. Initially it was used to prevent bad products, now it is also used to prevent products that are too good.
coderspirit 3y ago
Nothing new nor surprising, but very well presented.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
st-keller 3y ago
Interesting - didn‘t notice that. I‘m only buying quality stuff and stick to it as long a possible. Most of my cloth are years old. I’m buying a new iPhone if the one i have doesn’t get any updates anymore, and furniture has to outlive me. I always thought this is reasonable and that everyone would do it that way: Always having high quality stuff, saving money instead of wasting it by continuously buying cheap things! Seem‘s like i’m really out of touch with the world.
- dartos 3y ago
  Most people don’t have the option to buy quality goods in the first place, so they end up in the money sink trap. Constantly buying replacements for cheaply produced goods. It only takes buying the same thing 2 or 3 times before it’s more expensive than the quality options anyway.
  - Clubber 3y ago
    I think that's true. I also think that many people don't know the difference. I also think people have bought the expensive stuff and it end's up being just as cheap, but had fancy marketing. I also think executives chasing a bonus will take a quality brand and cheapen it for higher profits. An example, I bought a DeWalt electric pole trimmer. It was expensive, but I bought it because I wanted something that lasted. It broke after a couple of weeks and sits collecting dust. DeWalt used to be known for top quality stuff that contractors use. The brand is now diluted and probably crap. It really makes me hesitant to buy much anything I don't absolutely need.
- otikik 3y ago
  No, you are doing the rich man thing; the rich man can afford to buy a $20 pair of boots which lasts 5 years. The poor man can only afford the low-quality $6 pair which lasts a year.
  - culopatin 3y ago
    I know this doesn’t change your point but adding a 0 would make it match reality a bit more.

78 points by mikhael 3y ago

my complimentary add on to this : "why my whole studio is discontinued and obsolete" :-) I've found discontinued products in particular (by chance) almost a sign of a product which had tonnes of R&D poured into it, then, was deemed too expensive by the company.

nuancebydefault 3y ago

For consumer electronics, i believe the quality and durability is only increasing for the same price. I think this is because the rate of feature increase has slowed down, giving more breath to quality and durability. For example gorilla glass is almost standard, and it improves as well. On the other hand for clothing, it is clear that the quality decreases, like was shown in the video, because people buy more often. It gets out of fashion very fast anyway. Fashionability is bad for the environment. For electro mechanical devices, like coffee machines or printers, they suffer from addition of electronic features (like better ui or more features in one device) that mainly tend to add comfort but at the cost of more possible points of failure.

say_it_as_it_is 3y ago

They left out the most important category, profits. Cut functional costs to improve margins. Do less with lower quality machines and labor.

thelastgallon 3y ago

The enshittification of everything! https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/enshittification https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/enshittification A few days back there was a discussion on HN, The Tyranny of the Marginal User[1]. This applies to products. Products are made worse, advertised as great deals using all kinds of psychological tricks (Eg: discounting tricks in Austria discussed today in HN.), influencers, wellness peddlers, bloggers, podcasters, etc. Everyone, everywhere, everything, all the time is about buying stuff! See Temu, how it gamified shopping, bringing in game app store pressure tactics to shopping. People complain all the time about how things are costly or getting costlier or shrinkflation, but it doesn't stop anyone from buying, which leads me to think most people have too much money and have zero discretion on what to buy. A while back, people used to back away from buying stuff which they thought wasn't a great deal. But something has changed in the past few years, anybody can make any garbage and people will buy it! Think about cars: most everyone bought cars a few thousand below MSRP, but now undiscerning people have proven to manufacturers and dealers that they will buy whatever crap car is made at 50% markup. There is no selection pressure on manufacturers to make good stuff. [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37509507 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37509507 [2]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37532973 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37532973

5350-uiop-1130 3y ago
> most people have too much money and have zero discretion on what to buy I've noticed that people seem to expect less from things nowadays. In video games, they're okay with spending a lot of money on cosmetic skins. Even big companies like Apple advertise features like sending animated cat emojis as a big deal. I find it a bit strange, but some people really like and defend them. It's just how things are changing in the world.

thelastgallon 3y ago

Another reason why things are worse and they will keep getting worse. About a toaster company: "If you are passionate about toast, you will not work at a company that does not build toasters, that only does marketing. So my central thesis here is that if as an organization, you outsource too much with the idea that we will still retain the designers and our own power to innovate, it will not actually work. The smart people will not work for your company, because you have turned into a marketing and financing exercise. And the smart engineers, they want to build better toasters, they want to touch actual stuff. So the thing is, there is a point of no return. If as a company you have outsourced too much. No good engineer will still want to work for your company." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37540271 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37540271

Spivak 3y ago
And honestly this doesn't even have to be an allegory to something else, this is literally true about the toaster market right now. There are so few companies that actually design and manufacture toasters themselves. I ended up buying vintage because it turns out technological advancement has been directed to finding and building an ever more minimal viable toaster to keep prices sorrrrta constant under inflation. So that 80's-90's toaster is delivering value right now.
- thelastparadise 3y ago
  > So that 80's-90's toaster is delivering value right now. This is such a nice (and accurate) way to look at it. Imputed value. I'm interested to hear about the rest of your setup: espresso machine, clothes washer, car?
- Doxin 3y ago
  Man, trying to find a toaster that will evenly toast a slice of tall loaf (which is the default bread where I'm at) is like pulling teeth. I've settled for one that toasts one side much more quickly than the other and resorted to flipping the bread around halfway through. It's much larger than I'd like though since it's built for 4 regular slices. That way I can fit two and two half slices of tall loaf. Can I just pay someone $50 for a toaster that actually works please?

AwaAwa 3y ago

Oddly enough all the companies are more 'carbon friendly' and advertise it. Yet the cycle from consumer hands to trash is faster than ever. I suppose its one of those things that you won't get paid to study, but have a high chance of receiving pain for any such stufy. In hindsight seems like Capone, being commoner friendly.

aaron695 3y ago

[dead]

insickness 3y ago

This is another reason why I love vintage clothes so much: if the item survived ten or twenty years, it can more likely survive years longer than the average item manufactured nowadays.

pyinstallwoes 3y ago

I think the solution is more DIY, build your stuff. Somewhat similar to the boom/boon of Modular eurorack. There’s tons of people creating things, even open-source, and selling the circuits fully assembled or packaged for DIY at lower costs. I fundamentally believe that the human being requires designing their environment. This is also why cities in their current configuration may be such an anti-pattern with the trajectory of dystopian qualities; it is absurdly difficult for any human in a city to modify their environment in such a way it is the product of their inspiration and function. Tl:dr I think people value things less when they don’t directly build it.

freefaler 3y ago

To save you some time the main point of the video is - market drives prices down, because people want cheaper things and buy them more frequently, because it's easier to target people and cheaper to outsource production. And most people really don't care about the quality part that much. Regarding personal consumption I'd use Total Cost of Ownership equation. Need a screwdriver 3 times a year - no need to buy something very good. Need a keyboard for you computer and you're a programmer - buy the best you can, because your hands are irreplaceable. But you don't need a fancy laptop stand - a box and couple of books can do the thing (if you don't mind the ugly desk). With the money saved you can always just invest them and get them working or spend them on something more meaningful like health, socializing or whatever you like.

GoToRO 3y ago

The way I saw it work: A part for a car is prototyped. The prototype is tested and it comes out that it can last 30 years. But bussiness said it only needs to last 15 years (user use stats, the law). Prototype is redesigned so that it is weaker and also cheaper (often time not by much). So we have this problem because companies have test equipment that can tell them exactlly how long a product will last. Initially it was used to prevent bad products, now it is also used to prevent products that are too good.

coderspirit 3y ago

Nothing new nor surprising, but very well presented.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

st-keller 3y ago

Interesting - didn‘t notice that. I‘m only buying quality stuff and stick to it as long a possible. Most of my cloth are years old. I’m buying a new iPhone if the one i have doesn’t get any updates anymore, and furniture has to outlive me. I always thought this is reasonable and that everyone would do it that way: Always having high quality stuff, saving money instead of wasting it by continuously buying cheap things! Seem‘s like i’m really out of touch with the world.

dartos 3y ago
Most people don’t have the option to buy quality goods in the first place, so they end up in the money sink trap. Constantly buying replacements for cheaply produced goods. It only takes buying the same thing 2 or 3 times before it’s more expensive than the quality options anyway.
- Clubber 3y ago
  I think that's true. I also think that many people don't know the difference. I also think people have bought the expensive stuff and it end's up being just as cheap, but had fancy marketing. I also think executives chasing a bonus will take a quality brand and cheapen it for higher profits. An example, I bought a DeWalt electric pole trimmer. It was expensive, but I bought it because I wanted something that lasted. It broke after a couple of weeks and sits collecting dust. DeWalt used to be known for top quality stuff that contractors use. The brand is now diluted and probably crap. It really makes me hesitant to buy much anything I don't absolutely need.
otikik 3y ago
No, you are doing the rich man thing; the rich man can afford to buy a $20 pair of boots which lasts 5 years. The poor man can only afford the low-quality $6 pair which lasts a year.
- culopatin 3y ago
  I know this doesn’t change your point but adding a 0 would make it match reality a bit more.