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Do you work with the kids or parents themselves? I would be interested to hear more about what they’re like as humans. How it works emotionally. What these peo

Do you work with the kids or parents themselves? I would be interested to hear more about what they’re like as humans. How it works emotionally. What these people are like, how self-aware or not they are of how they pursue such goals. It is my impression that a big part of any society and in any historical period there have always been parents doing what they can to elevate their children into higher status. And this has always included an elaborate game of coaching, gaming and presenting children as some sort of prodigies or achievers. Hiding the flaws in shame, embellishing where possible. I’ve seen members of my own family invest obsessively into this sort of game, and I have mixed feelings about it all.

uberman 3y ago
We work with families, but the initiation always comes from parents. The kids are typically eager and nervous. The parents anxious while attempting to appear confident. On paper, the child is the client and we work with them. In practice, their are decisions that the family needs to make and sometimes parents are in a better position to build or start relationship networks. Parents typically come with crazy impressive networks already though and we help them leverage what they have. The sense I get is that these are people who highly valued their elite education and want the same opportunities for their kids. None seem particularly entitled or like jerks. They just have the resources to get their kids opportunities that most people cannot. I would think of it like this. There is almost no way two otherwise equal kids will get equivalent SAT scores if one has done any kind of prep course and the other has not. One kid is going to be answering questions that look just like ones they practiced while the other is still reading the test instructions. We do that kind of leg up but for every aspect of the admissions process.
- scyzoryk_xyz 3y ago
  What I imagined initially were perhaps people with resources but not the elite network or know-how. But from the sound of it, you help people who are already elite, people who know exactly what they're doing. Before all the technology and surveillance, elites had nothing to worry about - the kid just got in. Now the kid has to jump through all of the hoops, say all the right lines, deliver all the test answers etc. And it has to happen before he goes to the institution that's supposed to do the magic. Looking at my cousins' kid I didn't know what to think. They didn't do it on the level that you describe, but they definitely trained the boy to perfection. I couldn't say a bad thing about him, really - humble, ambitious, smart, clever, all perfect grades etc. Doesn't seem very "happy" though. How do you feel about it? Seeing how this sausage is made would you see it worthwhile to get your kid to do this sort of thing?
  - uberman 3y ago
    I see it as a game that many feel is or justifiably should be as a fair one but like so many other things in life is not in fact fair. Sometimes we see the injustice clearly such as when a affluent person evades jailtime for the same crime that sent a under privileged person to jail. I am planning for my kids to attend college absolutely and have guided them to play a sport I think is a signal. By grade 8 they had all done the requisite volenteer hours at the places I feel are right. They took a language I feel they will need to be successful. They take advanced courses to boost their GPA above 4. I have encouraged them to be in the after school clubs I think are important even though they refuse to do them. They keep certain friends of our family apprised of their grades and other milestones. All that said, they play their fill of among us, hang with friends and refuse to clean their rooms and know they are free to push back on my recomendations. We keep them directed and motivated but empowered. They will leverage that life lesson as well come application time. One thing we dont do is have them work temporary jobs. I recognize that is a necessity for many families but we are fortunate that we have the resources that make that a non factor. My kid's sports are already basically part time jobs and build plenty of character, pride and respect for hard work.
    - scyzoryk_xyz 3y ago
      Well put - all of it. We all live repeating narratives that we are what we make of ourselves and the fact that a lot of that actually comes from the stuff that is put into us by the folks who bring us up and into this world. My impression is that the biggest insight there is, is that this stuff is formed early and with the smallest things. Like going to a club when your parent tells you even if you don't want it or knowing both the consequences and the benefits of pushing back and asserting yourself. The narrative around temporary jobs is hard, I had those at a young age and thought they did something for me. Looking back, I'm not so sure that they really did anything for me character-wise.
      - uberman 3y ago
        I also worked part time jobs. Classic paper boy and gas station attendant. The reason we dont want our kids to have jobs is that their plates are already full with volenteer work and club and varsity sports that often overlap. If they also worked part time jobs it would eat into their free range time which we also think is important.
mathisfun123 3y ago
> I would be interested to hear more about what they’re like as humans. i worked at "crimson research institute" for a while during the beginning of my phd - they paid 125/hr so enough said about why i did it. the kids were almost all classic overachievers - smart enough but groomed by their parents for the life. all of them except one were unspectacular in that regard and just going through the motions of the "research projects" - i wasn't big on cracking the whip so most of them slacked off after a couple of months. all of them very clearly extremely wealthy. > presenting children as some sort of prodigies or achievers. no one gave that impression - it was always just a necessary component of getting into HYPS(whatever).
- scyzoryk_xyz 3y ago
  > no one gave that impression Oh, so playing the game but without grandiose delusions you mean? Almost sounds healthier

uberman 3y ago

We work with families, but the initiation always comes from parents. The kids are typically eager and nervous. The parents anxious while attempting to appear confident. On paper, the child is the client and we work with them. In practice, their are decisions that the family needs to make and sometimes parents are in a better position to build or start relationship networks. Parents typically come with crazy impressive networks already though and we help them leverage what they have. The sense I get is that these are people who highly valued their elite education and want the same opportunities for their kids. None seem particularly entitled or like jerks. They just have the resources to get their kids opportunities that most people cannot. I would think of it like this. There is almost no way two otherwise equal kids will get equivalent SAT scores if one has done any kind of prep course and the other has not. One kid is going to be answering questions that look just like ones they practiced while the other is still reading the test instructions. We do that kind of leg up but for every aspect of the admissions process.

scyzoryk_xyz 3y ago
What I imagined initially were perhaps people with resources but not the elite network or know-how. But from the sound of it, you help people who are already elite, people who know exactly what they're doing. Before all the technology and surveillance, elites had nothing to worry about - the kid just got in. Now the kid has to jump through all of the hoops, say all the right lines, deliver all the test answers etc. And it has to happen before he goes to the institution that's supposed to do the magic. Looking at my cousins' kid I didn't know what to think. They didn't do it on the level that you describe, but they definitely trained the boy to perfection. I couldn't say a bad thing about him, really - humble, ambitious, smart, clever, all perfect grades etc. Doesn't seem very "happy" though. How do you feel about it? Seeing how this sausage is made would you see it worthwhile to get your kid to do this sort of thing?
- uberman 3y ago
  I see it as a game that many feel is or justifiably should be as a fair one but like so many other things in life is not in fact fair. Sometimes we see the injustice clearly such as when a affluent person evades jailtime for the same crime that sent a under privileged person to jail. I am planning for my kids to attend college absolutely and have guided them to play a sport I think is a signal. By grade 8 they had all done the requisite volenteer hours at the places I feel are right. They took a language I feel they will need to be successful. They take advanced courses to boost their GPA above 4. I have encouraged them to be in the after school clubs I think are important even though they refuse to do them. They keep certain friends of our family apprised of their grades and other milestones. All that said, they play their fill of among us, hang with friends and refuse to clean their rooms and know they are free to push back on my recomendations. We keep them directed and motivated but empowered. They will leverage that life lesson as well come application time. One thing we dont do is have them work temporary jobs. I recognize that is a necessity for many families but we are fortunate that we have the resources that make that a non factor. My kid's sports are already basically part time jobs and build plenty of character, pride and respect for hard work.
  - scyzoryk_xyz 3y ago
    Well put - all of it. We all live repeating narratives that we are what we make of ourselves and the fact that a lot of that actually comes from the stuff that is put into us by the folks who bring us up and into this world. My impression is that the biggest insight there is, is that this stuff is formed early and with the smallest things. Like going to a club when your parent tells you even if you don't want it or knowing both the consequences and the benefits of pushing back and asserting yourself. The narrative around temporary jobs is hard, I had those at a young age and thought they did something for me. Looking back, I'm not so sure that they really did anything for me character-wise.
    - uberman 3y ago
      I also worked part time jobs. Classic paper boy and gas station attendant. The reason we dont want our kids to have jobs is that their plates are already full with volenteer work and club and varsity sports that often overlap. If they also worked part time jobs it would eat into their free range time which we also think is important.

mathisfun123 3y ago

> I would be interested to hear more about what they’re like as humans. i worked at "crimson research institute" for a while during the beginning of my phd - they paid 125/hr so enough said about why i did it. the kids were almost all classic overachievers - smart enough but groomed by their parents for the life. all of them except one were unspectacular in that regard and just going through the motions of the "research projects" - i wasn't big on cracking the whip so most of them slacked off after a couple of months. all of them very clearly extremely wealthy. > presenting children as some sort of prodigies or achievers. no one gave that impression - it was always just a necessary component of getting into HYPS(whatever).

scyzoryk_xyz 3y ago
> no one gave that impression Oh, so playing the game but without grandiose delusions you mean? Almost sounds healthier