4 ms·

I know TikTok is everyones favorite bogeyman, but short clips taken from movies have been on youtube for more than a century. Also as far as I'm concerened the

I know TikTok is everyones favorite bogeyman, but short clips taken from movies have been on youtube for more than a century. Also as far as I'm concerened they should be considered fair use. At best they might convince someone to actually watch the whole thing, so whos loss is it anyway?

junon 3y ago
Why should they be considered fair use? Fair use very clearly dictates this is not covered.
- tyingq 3y ago
  >Fair use very clearly dictates this is not covered Fair use, to me, is anything but clear on that topic. It specifically talks about "Amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work"[1] It then generally says "If the use includes a large portion of the copyrighted work, fair use is less likely to be found; if the use employs only a small amount of copyrighted material, fair use is more likely." But then gives counter-examples that don't match that theme at all. [1] https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/ https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/
  - Retric 3y ago
    All of the factors are important. This is what really trips up movie clips: > Nature of the copyrighted work: This factor analyzes the degree to which the work that was used relates to copyright’s purpose of encouraging creative expression. Thus, using a more creative or imaginative work (such as a novel, movie, or song) is less likely to support a claim of a fair use than using a factual work (such as a technical article or news item). In addition, use of an unpublished work is less likely to be considered fair. They also score really low here: > Purpose and character of the use, including whether the use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes: Courts look at how the party claiming fair use is using the copyrighted work, and are more likely to find that nonprofit educational and noncommercial uses are fair. This does not mean, however, that all nonprofit education and noncommercial uses are fair and all commercial uses are not fair; instead, courts will balance the purpose and character of the use against the other factors below. Additionally, “transformative” uses are more likely to be considered fair. Transformative uses are those that add something new, with a further purpose or different character, and do not substitute for the original use of the work. Using the exact same clip can be fair use or copyright infringement based on what’s surrounding it. A long discussion of camera angles in movies using the clip is one thing, the clip by itself is very different.
promiseofbeans 3y ago
you probably mean decade, not century
LeeroyWasHere 3y ago
Most people don't watch a whole movie on tiktok, they'll watch a few clips in a row. Regardless, that user doesn't go on tiktok to search or watch the movie, it just comes up in their fyp. That user was never going to buy that movie, he might of never heard of it, but now there's a chance he might go watch it on one of the million streaming platforms. It's the equivalent of people zapping between channels and finding something to watch. Streaming platforms and co don't have this kind of discoverability, they should consider releasing clips themselves.
pjc50 3y ago
Does anyone remember Quibi? Has anyone ever even seen Quibi content? As far as I can tell, they had the piracy locked down perfectly .. meaning nobody ever posted any clips of their shows. So nobody knew about them, nobody watched them, and nobody paid for Quibi.
- bacchusracine 3y ago
  >As far as I can tell, they had the piracy locked down perfectly .. You must not have been looking in the right places. As far as I know all their shows made appearances in places where they could be downloaded. It just wasn't compelling content and it had the misfortune of launching right when the covid lock downs started, so their target demographic wasn't out watching on public transportation.
quitit 3y ago
Just to be a stickler on copyright: your comment repeats a harmful falsehood. It's important to call it out as people begin to think it's normal, leading them into peril. It is not fair use to take any amount of a copyrighted work and reproduce it arbitrarily. While fair use involves some amount of unauthorised copying, this is secondary to the primary purpose - such as news reporting, reviews(e.g. criticism), teaching and research etc. Additionally fair use only covers the amount necessary to inform. You can't take a film, splice it up and call it research. Fair use explainers are available at the links below. For ordinary people it's worthwhile understanding your rights and the boundaries of those rights. https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html https://copyrightalliance.org/education/copyright-law-explained/limitations-on-a-copyright-owners-rights/fair-use-exceptions-copyright/ https://copyrightalliance.org/education/copyright-law-explai...
- bombcar 3y ago
  And people should remember the difference between what is legally permissible and what is allowed to exist because it’s too complicated or hard to prosecute.
  - bch 3y ago
    Top Gun one frame at a time on Twitter got shut down… https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/paramount-grounds-top-gun-tweeter-683293/ https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/par...
- aperson_hello 3y ago
  But there's a distinction between what should be allowed vs. what is legally allowed. You're talking about what's legally allowed, the parent comment is talking about what should be allowed.
- SeanAnderson 3y ago
  It's an exceedingly common technique for modern social media content producers/influencers to piggyback their content onto already viral content with "reaction takes." All it requires is saying you're reacting to it and either speaking over it from time to time and/or showing your face from time to time. Like a LARGE amount of Twitch's "Just Chatting" consistent of people watching YouTube with their chat and not offering anything constructive ontop of it. It's not clear to me if that's occurring here though :)
hulitu 3y ago
> short clips taken from movies have been on youtube for more than a century. Full movies have also been on youtube since a long time. But TikTok = chinese = bad, youtube = american = good. /s
capableweb 3y ago
> but short clips taken from movies have been on youtube for more than a century. AFAIK, it seems like entire movies are being split into 40+ parts and uploaded to TikTok, no just "short clips taken from movies". That doesn't really seem like "fair use" to me.

junon 3y ago

Why should they be considered fair use? Fair use very clearly dictates this is not covered.

tyingq 3y ago
>Fair use very clearly dictates this is not covered Fair use, to me, is anything but clear on that topic. It specifically talks about "Amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work"[1] It then generally says "If the use includes a large portion of the copyrighted work, fair use is less likely to be found; if the use employs only a small amount of copyrighted material, fair use is more likely." But then gives counter-examples that don't match that theme at all. [1] https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/ https://www.copyright.gov/fair-use/
- Retric 3y ago
  All of the factors are important. This is what really trips up movie clips: > Nature of the copyrighted work: This factor analyzes the degree to which the work that was used relates to copyright’s purpose of encouraging creative expression. Thus, using a more creative or imaginative work (such as a novel, movie, or song) is less likely to support a claim of a fair use than using a factual work (such as a technical article or news item). In addition, use of an unpublished work is less likely to be considered fair. They also score really low here: > Purpose and character of the use, including whether the use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes: Courts look at how the party claiming fair use is using the copyrighted work, and are more likely to find that nonprofit educational and noncommercial uses are fair. This does not mean, however, that all nonprofit education and noncommercial uses are fair and all commercial uses are not fair; instead, courts will balance the purpose and character of the use against the other factors below. Additionally, “transformative” uses are more likely to be considered fair. Transformative uses are those that add something new, with a further purpose or different character, and do not substitute for the original use of the work. Using the exact same clip can be fair use or copyright infringement based on what’s surrounding it. A long discussion of camera angles in movies using the clip is one thing, the clip by itself is very different.

promiseofbeans 3y ago

you probably mean decade, not century

LeeroyWasHere 3y ago

Most people don't watch a whole movie on tiktok, they'll watch a few clips in a row. Regardless, that user doesn't go on tiktok to search or watch the movie, it just comes up in their fyp. That user was never going to buy that movie, he might of never heard of it, but now there's a chance he might go watch it on one of the million streaming platforms. It's the equivalent of people zapping between channels and finding something to watch. Streaming platforms and co don't have this kind of discoverability, they should consider releasing clips themselves.

pjc50 3y ago

Does anyone remember Quibi? Has anyone ever even seen Quibi content? As far as I can tell, they had the piracy locked down perfectly .. meaning nobody ever posted any clips of their shows. So nobody knew about them, nobody watched them, and nobody paid for Quibi.

bacchusracine 3y ago
>As far as I can tell, they had the piracy locked down perfectly .. You must not have been looking in the right places. As far as I know all their shows made appearances in places where they could be downloaded. It just wasn't compelling content and it had the misfortune of launching right when the covid lock downs started, so their target demographic wasn't out watching on public transportation.

quitit 3y ago

Just to be a stickler on copyright: your comment repeats a harmful falsehood. It's important to call it out as people begin to think it's normal, leading them into peril. It is not fair use to take any amount of a copyrighted work and reproduce it arbitrarily. While fair use involves some amount of unauthorised copying, this is secondary to the primary purpose - such as news reporting, reviews(e.g. criticism), teaching and research etc. Additionally fair use only covers the amount necessary to inform. You can't take a film, splice it up and call it research. Fair use explainers are available at the links below. For ordinary people it's worthwhile understanding your rights and the boundaries of those rights. https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html https://copyrightalliance.org/education/copyright-law-explained/limitations-on-a-copyright-owners-rights/fair-use-exceptions-copyright/ https://copyrightalliance.org/education/copyright-law-explai...

bombcar 3y ago
And people should remember the difference between what is legally permissible and what is allowed to exist because it’s too complicated or hard to prosecute.
- bch 3y ago
  Top Gun one frame at a time on Twitter got shut down… https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/paramount-grounds-top-gun-tweeter-683293/ https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/par...
aperson_hello 3y ago
But there's a distinction between what should be allowed vs. what is legally allowed. You're talking about what's legally allowed, the parent comment is talking about what should be allowed.
SeanAnderson 3y ago
It's an exceedingly common technique for modern social media content producers/influencers to piggyback their content onto already viral content with "reaction takes." All it requires is saying you're reacting to it and either speaking over it from time to time and/or showing your face from time to time. Like a LARGE amount of Twitch's "Just Chatting" consistent of people watching YouTube with their chat and not offering anything constructive ontop of it. It's not clear to me if that's occurring here though :)

hulitu 3y ago

> short clips taken from movies have been on youtube for more than a century. Full movies have also been on youtube since a long time. But TikTok = chinese = bad, youtube = american = good. /s

capableweb 3y ago

> but short clips taken from movies have been on youtube for more than a century. AFAIK, it seems like entire movies are being split into 40+ parts and uploaded to TikTok, no just "short clips taken from movies". That doesn't really seem like "fair use" to me.