5 ms·

Funny how the two most pro-Russian EU countries, Hungary and Austria, are the ones suffering the worst inflation despite continuing to trade with Russia. The o

by 0xDEF 3y ago

Funny how the two most pro-Russian EU countries, Hungary and Austria, are the ones suffering the worst inflation despite continuing to trade with Russia. The only parts of the countries doing well are Budapest and Vienna that are both controlled by opposition parties.

helpfulContrib 3y ago
Austrian inflation and trade with Russia: please explain how this is related? Is it because corporations are being used to put the squeeze on the Austrian people? Sanctions? Because nobody wants to do trade with Austria? In which case, there must surely be examples? I'd love to know a few.
- 0xDEF 3y ago
  Pro-Russian right-wing parties in Europe are blaming inflation on our sanctions on Russia. If that was the case Hungary and Austria would not be the the countries that are worst affected by inflation.
  - helpfulContrib 3y ago
    This doesn't make any sense at all. Please explain it without generalizations, and maybe give some examples?
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      I guess what he meant was that big retailers colluded to increase prices simultaneously together in lock-step for no reason other than greed and profiteering, and simply blamed it on the Russo-Ukrainian war as being the reason for prices exploding.
      - helpfulContrib 3y ago
        I believe the OP was referring to Far-right, pro-Russia parties getting their 'come-uppance' by the rest of the world, but I'd really like to know more details about that. Not that I doubt that big corporations would use the Russia excuse whenever/wherever they can - I mean, who wouldn't - but I'd just like to see the details that tie the inflation to support of Russia a bit more clearly laid out.
        oddmiral 3y ago
        Pro-Russian wing in EU forbid import of cheap Ukrainian food into EU as a kind of sanctions against Ukraine, which caused the spike in food prices.
        FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        Nothing to do with being pro-Russia. EU farmers themselves were against duty-free imports of cheap Ukrainian foodstuffs because unfair competition to them which they can't compete against.
  - Haemm0r 3y ago
    The situation in Austria is fundamentally different than in Hungary. In Hungary the government kept prices of energy and food down by law for quite some time when everywhere else prices where rising. What they see now is the catch-up effect after those restrictions fell. I actually do not know what is the reason why the Austrian inflation is still that high. Energy prices as are like before covid, but food prices keep climbing. Maybe because the largest retailers Billa and Spar have almost 70% of the total market share they can do what they want (with the clients and the producers) I guess we also have to wait for one or two years that real estate/rent prices start going down for real (real estate prices are almost stagnating now, but rents are still rising). That may have a real impact on inflation.
    - the_mitsuhiko 3y ago
      The Austrian inflation problem is easily answered: wage inflation (collective bargaining agreements), paired with high gas costs, paired with many inflation linked contracts such as rents. Many of these feed back into the inflation basked and just make inflation quite sticky.
      - Haemm0r 3y ago
        High gas prices are not a thing anymore: It is about EU average: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/bookmark/bef444e2-a1ee-4bb4-8cd0-b63a672064e1?lang=en https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/bookmark/bef444e2-... Interesting fact when looking at the data: Many countries with a "high" inflation right now have very low gas prices.
        the_mitsuhiko 3y ago
        I cannot judge what "EU average" is. I can only tell you that the gas price that a household customer pays today is still twice than it was before this crisis and that is reflected in wholesale prices if you compare the cost of gas in Austria compared to 2020 and earlier.
        3y ago
  - masswerk 3y ago
    First, I wouldn't say that Austria is pro-Russian. Neither official politics, nor the majority of the people (with the notable exception of the infamous FPÖ). Then, it's mostly about infrastructure. While the western parts of the country have broad access to renewable energy, like hydropower, the eastern parts heavily depend on natural gas, with not much of an alternative as far as infrastructure goes. We may also point out the questionable wisdom of EU politics, announcing prematurely the exit out of then predominant sources of natural gas without having any alternatives already secured or even at hand, nor the bigger infrastructure being able to handle any routes alternative to the established ones at scale, while having a deregulated energy market at the same time. With predictable outcome… (Talk boldly and carry a small twig, as they say.) Some countries are impacted by this more than others, with regard to their traditional energy mix and local climate. (Countries and regions with a continental climate are impacted more than others.)
    - mrcode007 3y ago
      I’ll help you with your research: Ex-Austrian minister who danced with Putin at wedding lands Russian oil job https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/02/former-austrian-minister-given-seat-on-board-of-russias-rosneft https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/02/former-austria...
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        Bruh, that's old news. She now moved to St. Petersburg to work for the Russian government and the Russian air-force had to fly her ponies in too (because that's what you use your airforce for in times of war). It sounds like an Onion article but it's real. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/14/karin-kneissl-austria-ex-foreign-minister-moves-to-russia https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/14/karin-kneissl-...
        mrcode007 3y ago
        Hilarious
      - masswerk 3y ago
- codethief 3y ago
  Both Hungary and Austria are still buying huge amounts of gas from Russia (Austria: 71%, Hungary: 80-85%) and also oil in Hungary's case (80%)[0]. Meanwhile, other European countries had to look for more expensive alternatives. One of the main reasons given for inflation in those countries was the energy crisis. What's the reason in Austria & Hungary? [0]: https://oesterreich.orf.at/stories/3194035/ https://oesterreich.orf.at/stories/3194035/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/hungary-agrees-option-more-russian-gas-shipments-oil-transit-fees-2023-04-11/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/hungary-agrees-optio...
yakubin 3y ago
Hungary yes, but Austria doesn’t seem to be doing all that bad. Eastern Europe is doing much worse. https://www.statista.com/statistics/225698/monthly-inflation-rate-in-eu-countries/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/225698/monthly-inflation...
- 0xDEF 3y ago
  Isn't that the June 2023 inflation numbers? How do they include increased natural gas prices doing winter months?
  - yakubin 3y ago
    They don’t. We’re far away both from the previous and upcoming winter. Are you saying that during winter Austria is going to be doing worse than others?
    - Haemm0r 3y ago
      Don't think so. The storage capacities in Austria are rather big compared to other countries. In contrast to last year the gas storage facilities are already filled to the brim. Europe wide gas storage information: https://agsi.gie.eu/#/ https://agsi.gie.eu/#/ Ownership information for gas stored in for Austria: https://www.e-control.at/gas/gasmarkt/speicher/speicherstaende https://www.e-control.at/gas/gasmarkt/speicher/speicherstaen...
iraqmtpizza 3y ago
Um, Hungary took on huge amounts of debt starting in 2020. Forgot to mention that, huh?
Paradigma11 3y ago
Cant talk about Hungary but in Austria the reason is the incredibly broad and untargeted financial assistance for everybody because of the energy crisis and covid. The reason for this is technical incompetence and cowardice of the government. They could not have done something better even if they wanted and they fear the voters far too much to let some hurt go through the system. I am no rich antigovernment libertarian but there can be no surprise that all those measures https://www.klimabonus.gv.at/en/ https://www.klimabonus.gv.at/en/ https://land-noe.at/noe/blau-gelber-Strompreisrabatt.html https://land-noe.at/noe/blau-gelber-Strompreisrabatt.html https://www.bmk.gv.at/themen/energie/energieversorgung/stromkostenbremse.html https://www.bmk.gv.at/themen/energie/energieversorgung/strom... https://www.arbeiterkammer.at/antiteuerungspaket https://www.arbeiterkammer.at/antiteuerungspaket .... have some effect on inflation.
- Paradigma11 3y ago
  Just to reiterate, my electricity bill last year went down from 1k to about 650Eur because of some aid or another while I am sure some family cant afford basic necessities.
- mqus 3y ago
  > have some effect on inflation. But how does this concretely affect supermarkets? They presumably didn't raise wages, they didn't have to pay more for their wares(at least not at the level they raised their prices at, after all they have probably long-term contracts at generous oligopoly conditions) and their electricity bill is maybe at most 10% of their cost. This is purely extortion.

by 0xDEF 3y ago

helpfulContrib 3y ago

Austrian inflation and trade with Russia: please explain how this is related? Is it because corporations are being used to put the squeeze on the Austrian people? Sanctions? Because nobody wants to do trade with Austria? In which case, there must surely be examples? I'd love to know a few.

0xDEF 3y ago
Pro-Russian right-wing parties in Europe are blaming inflation on our sanctions on Russia. If that was the case Hungary and Austria would not be the the countries that are worst affected by inflation.
- helpfulContrib 3y ago
  This doesn't make any sense at all. Please explain it without generalizations, and maybe give some examples?
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    I guess what he meant was that big retailers colluded to increase prices simultaneously together in lock-step for no reason other than greed and profiteering, and simply blamed it on the Russo-Ukrainian war as being the reason for prices exploding.
    - helpfulContrib 3y ago
      I believe the OP was referring to Far-right, pro-Russia parties getting their 'come-uppance' by the rest of the world, but I'd really like to know more details about that. Not that I doubt that big corporations would use the Russia excuse whenever/wherever they can - I mean, who wouldn't - but I'd just like to see the details that tie the inflation to support of Russia a bit more clearly laid out.
      - oddmiral 3y ago
        Pro-Russian wing in EU forbid import of cheap Ukrainian food into EU as a kind of sanctions against Ukraine, which caused the spike in food prices.
        FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        Nothing to do with being pro-Russia. EU farmers themselves were against duty-free imports of cheap Ukrainian foodstuffs because unfair competition to them which they can't compete against.
- Haemm0r 3y ago
  The situation in Austria is fundamentally different than in Hungary. In Hungary the government kept prices of energy and food down by law for quite some time when everywhere else prices where rising. What they see now is the catch-up effect after those restrictions fell. I actually do not know what is the reason why the Austrian inflation is still that high. Energy prices as are like before covid, but food prices keep climbing. Maybe because the largest retailers Billa and Spar have almost 70% of the total market share they can do what they want (with the clients and the producers) I guess we also have to wait for one or two years that real estate/rent prices start going down for real (real estate prices are almost stagnating now, but rents are still rising). That may have a real impact on inflation.
  - the_mitsuhiko 3y ago
    The Austrian inflation problem is easily answered: wage inflation (collective bargaining agreements), paired with high gas costs, paired with many inflation linked contracts such as rents. Many of these feed back into the inflation basked and just make inflation quite sticky.
    - Haemm0r 3y ago
      High gas prices are not a thing anymore: It is about EU average: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/bookmark/bef444e2-a1ee-4bb4-8cd0-b63a672064e1?lang=en https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/bookmark/bef444e2-... Interesting fact when looking at the data: Many countries with a "high" inflation right now have very low gas prices.
      - the_mitsuhiko 3y ago
        I cannot judge what "EU average" is. I can only tell you that the gas price that a household customer pays today is still twice than it was before this crisis and that is reflected in wholesale prices if you compare the cost of gas in Austria compared to 2020 and earlier.
        3y ago
- masswerk 3y ago
  First, I wouldn't say that Austria is pro-Russian. Neither official politics, nor the majority of the people (with the notable exception of the infamous FPÖ). Then, it's mostly about infrastructure. While the western parts of the country have broad access to renewable energy, like hydropower, the eastern parts heavily depend on natural gas, with not much of an alternative as far as infrastructure goes. We may also point out the questionable wisdom of EU politics, announcing prematurely the exit out of then predominant sources of natural gas without having any alternatives already secured or even at hand, nor the bigger infrastructure being able to handle any routes alternative to the established ones at scale, while having a deregulated energy market at the same time. With predictable outcome… (Talk boldly and carry a small twig, as they say.) Some countries are impacted by this more than others, with regard to their traditional energy mix and local climate. (Countries and regions with a continental climate are impacted more than others.)
  - mrcode007 3y ago
    I’ll help you with your research: Ex-Austrian minister who danced with Putin at wedding lands Russian oil job https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/02/former-austrian-minister-given-seat-on-board-of-russias-rosneft https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/02/former-austria...
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      Bruh, that's old news. She now moved to St. Petersburg to work for the Russian government and the Russian air-force had to fly her ponies in too (because that's what you use your airforce for in times of war). It sounds like an Onion article but it's real. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/14/karin-kneissl-austria-ex-foreign-minister-moves-to-russia https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/14/karin-kneissl-...
      - mrcode007 3y ago
        Hilarious
    - masswerk 3y ago
codethief 3y ago
Both Hungary and Austria are still buying huge amounts of gas from Russia (Austria: 71%, Hungary: 80-85%) and also oil in Hungary's case (80%)[0]. Meanwhile, other European countries had to look for more expensive alternatives. One of the main reasons given for inflation in those countries was the energy crisis. What's the reason in Austria & Hungary? [0]: https://oesterreich.orf.at/stories/3194035/ https://oesterreich.orf.at/stories/3194035/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/hungary-agrees-option-more-russian-gas-shipments-oil-transit-fees-2023-04-11/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/hungary-agrees-optio...

yakubin 3y ago

Hungary yes, but Austria doesn’t seem to be doing all that bad. Eastern Europe is doing much worse. https://www.statista.com/statistics/225698/monthly-inflation-rate-in-eu-countries/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/225698/monthly-inflation...

0xDEF 3y ago
Isn't that the June 2023 inflation numbers? How do they include increased natural gas prices doing winter months?
- yakubin 3y ago
  They don’t. We’re far away both from the previous and upcoming winter. Are you saying that during winter Austria is going to be doing worse than others?
  - Haemm0r 3y ago
    Don't think so. The storage capacities in Austria are rather big compared to other countries. In contrast to last year the gas storage facilities are already filled to the brim. Europe wide gas storage information: https://agsi.gie.eu/#/ https://agsi.gie.eu/#/ Ownership information for gas stored in for Austria: https://www.e-control.at/gas/gasmarkt/speicher/speicherstaende https://www.e-control.at/gas/gasmarkt/speicher/speicherstaen...

iraqmtpizza 3y ago

Um, Hungary took on huge amounts of debt starting in 2020. Forgot to mention that, huh?

Paradigma11 3y ago

Cant talk about Hungary but in Austria the reason is the incredibly broad and untargeted financial assistance for everybody because of the energy crisis and covid. The reason for this is technical incompetence and cowardice of the government. They could not have done something better even if they wanted and they fear the voters far too much to let some hurt go through the system. I am no rich antigovernment libertarian but there can be no surprise that all those measures https://www.klimabonus.gv.at/en/ https://www.klimabonus.gv.at/en/ https://land-noe.at/noe/blau-gelber-Strompreisrabatt.html https://land-noe.at/noe/blau-gelber-Strompreisrabatt.html https://www.bmk.gv.at/themen/energie/energieversorgung/stromkostenbremse.html https://www.bmk.gv.at/themen/energie/energieversorgung/strom... https://www.arbeiterkammer.at/antiteuerungspaket https://www.arbeiterkammer.at/antiteuerungspaket .... have some effect on inflation.

Paradigma11 3y ago
Just to reiterate, my electricity bill last year went down from 1k to about 650Eur because of some aid or another while I am sure some family cant afford basic necessities.
mqus 3y ago
> have some effect on inflation. But how does this concretely affect supermarkets? They presumably didn't raise wages, they didn't have to pay more for their wares(at least not at the level they raised their prices at, after all they have probably long-term contracts at generous oligopoly conditions) and their electricity bill is maybe at most 10% of their cost. This is purely extortion.