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Apple honestly did a pretty good job. You can sideload your own code with a free developer account, but you have to jump through some minor hoops to get “develo

by paulmd 3y ago

Apple honestly did a pretty good job. You can sideload your own code with a free developer account, but you have to jump through some minor hoops to get “developer” mode set on your account (I went through this to get the tvOS 17 beta). And the app signing expires in 7 days, so it’s really painful for a normal user who isn’t actually developing and testing an app to use like that for a long term thing. If you want more than that, you can pay $99 for a real developer account and that will let you sign apps for up to a year. And that’s a sufficient barrier that Facebook can’t be like “you have to sign up for a dev account if you want to use Facebook!” and expect the average user to just blindly comply. Cause that’s the problem with the EU approach, it works ok when it’s only the EU, but Facebook really wants to bypass those permissions (they’ve already bribed users to install dev credential builds that have full permissions, so they could datamine more effectively), and the moment they can lever open the app-review process with “third party app stores” is the moment the “doesn’t work on iOS, please sideload the native app” banner goes up on Facebook.com. It doesn’t have to be financial but the only alternatives would be some kind of credential verification thing like looking at your LinkedIn or a college transcript or a GitHub account to validate that you’re actually a bona fide developer and not just grandma who got an iTunes gift card to install the spyware build (real example from Facebook). https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/30/apple-bans-facebook-vpn/amp/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/30/apple-bans-facebook-vpn/am...

JimDabell 3y ago
> Apple honestly did a pretty good job. They did. Over here, there are regular news articles and warnings from the government as yet more Android users get conned into installing fake banking app APKs that let attackers steal all their money. It’s always the same news article and the same warning – only Android users affected. Elsewhere in this thread, people are saying that you can’t protect people from themselves… but Apple seem to be doing a good job of it. When was the last time a side-loaded IPA stole bank credentials from iPhone users? I personally think that Apple should be a little more open. Having some sort of developer mode with plenty of warnings would be better. But the idea that Apple’s approach doesn’t improve security in meaningful ways to the average user is wishful thinking based more in ideology than what actually happens in the real world.
- shadowgovt 3y ago
  > Elsewhere in this thread, people are saying that you can’t protect people from themselves… but Apple seem to be doing a good job of it Precisely my point. I think there are benefits to both locked-down devices and open devices, and both are desirable. If Android is transitioning towards more constrained-by-default, (a) that's smart given it's working so well for their largest competition, and (b) it opens the field wider for the truly open-stack phones to gain users. Win-win.
  - michaelmrose 3y ago
    > it opens the field wider for the truly open-stack phones to gain users. Win-win. Microsoft couldn't break into this market for billions of dollars. Open phones breaking in because android becomes more locked down is a complete fantasy. What do you do when oppressive governments insist that your now constrained environment implement some of their suggestions with the alternative to compliance being your local yokels go to prison and the alternative to having local yokels is that you aren't allowed to sell there?
    - shadowgovt 3y ago
      In the event that fantasy scenario plays out, there's no winners period; if Android complied, they'd still get to sell, and if they didn't they'd end up on the black market alongside the Pinephones. None of this category of openness matters if the government turns to oppression.
- JimDabell 3y ago
  > Over here, there are regular news articles and warnings from the government as yet more Android users get conned into installing fake banking app APKs that let attackers steal all their money. It’s always the same news article and the same warning – only Android users affected. Like clockwork, here’s today’s article: > The victims would then contact the “sellers” via the platforms or messaging app WhatsApp. Following this, the “sellers” would send a uniform resource locator (URL) link for the victims to download an Android Package Kit (APK) file, an app created for Android’s operating system. https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/android-malware-scam-factory-reset-phone-police-3785801 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/android-malware-sc...

by paulmd 3y ago

JimDabell 3y ago

> Apple honestly did a pretty good job. They did. Over here, there are regular news articles and warnings from the government as yet more Android users get conned into installing fake banking app APKs that let attackers steal all their money. It’s always the same news article and the same warning – only Android users affected. Elsewhere in this thread, people are saying that you can’t protect people from themselves… but Apple seem to be doing a good job of it. When was the last time a side-loaded IPA stole bank credentials from iPhone users? I personally think that Apple should be a little more open. Having some sort of developer mode with plenty of warnings would be better. But the idea that Apple’s approach doesn’t improve security in meaningful ways to the average user is wishful thinking based more in ideology than what actually happens in the real world.

shadowgovt 3y ago
> Elsewhere in this thread, people are saying that you can’t protect people from themselves… but Apple seem to be doing a good job of it Precisely my point. I think there are benefits to both locked-down devices and open devices, and both are desirable. If Android is transitioning towards more constrained-by-default, (a) that's smart given it's working so well for their largest competition, and (b) it opens the field wider for the truly open-stack phones to gain users. Win-win.
- michaelmrose 3y ago
  > it opens the field wider for the truly open-stack phones to gain users. Win-win. Microsoft couldn't break into this market for billions of dollars. Open phones breaking in because android becomes more locked down is a complete fantasy. What do you do when oppressive governments insist that your now constrained environment implement some of their suggestions with the alternative to compliance being your local yokels go to prison and the alternative to having local yokels is that you aren't allowed to sell there?
  - shadowgovt 3y ago
    In the event that fantasy scenario plays out, there's no winners period; if Android complied, they'd still get to sell, and if they didn't they'd end up on the black market alongside the Pinephones. None of this category of openness matters if the government turns to oppression.
JimDabell 3y ago
> Over here, there are regular news articles and warnings from the government as yet more Android users get conned into installing fake banking app APKs that let attackers steal all their money. It’s always the same news article and the same warning – only Android users affected. Like clockwork, here’s today’s article: > The victims would then contact the “sellers” via the platforms or messaging app WhatsApp. Following this, the “sellers” would send a uniform resource locator (URL) link for the victims to download an Android Package Kit (APK) file, an app created for Android’s operating system. https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/android-malware-scam-factory-reset-phone-police-3785801 https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/android-malware-sc...