6 ms·

I think more remote is inevitable. Think of how much time is stolen from you in a daily commute. Remote is better for the environment too.

Gigachad 3y ago
> Think of how much time is stolen from you in a daily commute Not that much. And I just read hacker news while sitting on the train which I was going to do if sitting at home anyway.
- WeylandYutani 3y ago
  A train that has seats left in rush hour? I envy you.
  - Gigachad 3y ago
    I either leave slightly earlier and beat rush hour, or even if I don’t, I can still use my phone standing.
    - dunefox 3y ago
      Wow, that sounds fantastic! \s
- this15testing1 3y ago
  oh right, gigchad speaks for all people on earth who obviously have the same commute and transport options
  - DiggyJohnson 3y ago
    They never implied that. Your insult is completely out of place.
- khuedoan 3y ago
  Only if you live in a country with decent public transportation. The rest of the world still have to deal with traffic jam and polluted air while commuting (cars are difficult to get in many countries).
  - alophawen 3y ago
    > Only if you live in a country with decent public transportation So only in every country in the world except USA?
    - rgrieselhuber 3y ago
      Not if you count rural areas. In Japan for example, commuting every day in many areas still requires a car or long train rides. And the sardine-packed trains at rush hours in the cities are literally soul-sucking.
    - BlargMcLarg 3y ago
      Only Japan would remotely apply unless you're cheating the system by checking only hotspot cities and trying to claim they are the entirety of their country. Suffice to say, most people don't live near Amsterdam, let alone able to afford it.
    - john_the_writer 3y ago
      Or Sydney-Australia where if you're super lucky you're not standing squished on a train, or bouncing on a bus with 3 times as many people as seats.
- hdjjhhvvhga 3y ago
  >> Think of how much time is stolen from you in a daily commute > Not that much. OK, let's assume it's not 90 minutes but only 20 minutes a day. That compounds, and it's a lot of time I could spend on what really matters to me, not work. Why should I do it, if I have a choice? Time is the most precious thing we have. I will never come back to the office, period.
  - Gigachad 3y ago
    It’s 20 minutes where I catch up on the news get a bit of walking in from the home to the train station and generally wake up to arrive at the office ready to go.
    - john_the_writer 3y ago
      ha 20 minutes. Some days I waited for the bus longer than that. I waited because in Sydney the bus is on-time about 15% of the time. If you miss it, you wait an extra hour. Not sure where you live, that's got a 20 min commute, but most people either live in a concrete prison to reduce the commute, or spend 2 hours a day on a bus/train. I do know this.. if you worked from home, you could get all that you've outlined, and likely spend a pile less on rent/mortgage. Others who work with you would also get to see their kids before bed.
      - Gigachad 3y ago
        Sydney sucks. I’m in Melbourne and the train leaves every 5 minutes, takes me about 20 minutes to get to the cbd about 7km away. Rent is pretty affordable too.
        smugma 3y ago
        25 min (maybe 30-40 if you include walking to and from station?) for 7km? Seems like a bike or eBike would be a faster way to go? Melbourne climate is pretty temperate, no?
        3y ago
FirmwareBurner 3y ago
It is, but companies are too stubborn.
- Sparkyte 3y ago
  It all comes down to hiring the right people. The problem with remote is many companies hire the wrong people so they end up not doing the right thing. Then all of the people who are good get punished.
  - nikau 3y ago
    Its also lazy management. Remote work used to be an earned privilege for workers who were self sufficient and didn't need any management. Now everyone expects it, and lazy/weak managers will just make everyone come into the office vs having hard conversations with crap employees to tell them they cant work from home.
    - isilofi 3y ago
      > Remote work used to be an earned privilege for workers who were self sufficient and didn't need any management. I'm coordinating with developers in Europe, South America and East Asia. The customers are all over, but mainly North American. I'm in Europe. I've seen some of the customers once or twice in person, I see many of my European colleagues at the yearly get-together. But all the contact and all the work is over email, phone and video conferences and the usual mix of other remote collaboration tools, ticket system, git, stuff like that. When I enter our local office, only one of the 50 people working there has anything to do with that I do. My manager is 800km away. Well, there's payroll over here, but the only time I'll need to "visit" them in person is when a paycheck is late ;). Even before COVID, the world shifted towards remote, even when you HAD to come to the local office because of reasons. COVID just showed everyone what a charade it already has been for the last decade to force people into an office just to get on phone/email/git and work remotely from the office. COVID cut out the stupid useless "going to the office" step. In the 2000s, it wasn't like that, teams were concentrated at some offices, offshoring wasn't that much of a thing yet. And for lots of things, travelling e.g. to meet a customer was accepted and normal, far more often than it is now. A new contract was a 2-week stay at the customers'. Back then, remote work actually was a privilege. But the world had changed long before COVID, slowly, then very quickly.
rjh29 3y ago
Idk I loved my hour of walking every day. My mental health tanked when I became full remote.
- glenjamin 3y ago
  Have you considered going for a walk?
- lpapez 3y ago
  You can walk even without going to work fyi.
  - rjh29 3y ago
    I did, but the enforced boundary between work and home is very important to me.
    - john_the_writer 3y ago
      You can enforce that boundary with a walk before and after work. Wake, coffee, walk, start work at 9. Finish at 5, put computer away, and walk for 15 min, your day is done.
      - rjh29 3y ago
        I really wish I could be that organised.
        frumper 3y ago
        It sounds like if you’re not WFH you are that organized. You can do it.
      - vaccarium 3y ago
        No. Just, no. It's really arrogant how you assume you understand GP's situation better than themselves.
- 3y ago
flakeoil 3y ago
Stolen? You were paid for and took the job you knew was a certain distance and commute away from your home. I believe employees have to start to get used to being paid less when working remote. People who work in an office or factory have to be rewarded for this commute. Some jobs cannot be made remote. I assume a lot of people working remote also like the fact that they can do the laundry, clean the house, do some errands etc during the working day. This flexibility should also allow the salary for remote workers to be lower than for people working in an office.
- salawat 3y ago
  >People who work in an office or factory have to be rewarded for this commute. Last I checked, no one paid me" for my commute time or comp'd the wear on my vehicle. If those hours* spent in traffic should have been counted on the clock, then golly gee, I have invoices yo get written! Seriously, I get it. There should be something for it, but there never will be. Wage theft. Management will do anything possible to get unpaid time out of you.
  - flakeoil 3y ago
    Well, most people took the job as a being-in-the-office job (before the work from home took off). Which means you took the job + commute for that salary. If you then suddenly don't have to go to the office it's not such a stretch to think you could/should be paid less. As it's probably easier to hire someone to work remote than hire someone who has to go to the office, the salaries will probably over time be less for work from home jobs anyway (for the same type of job). It's funny how people feel so entitled to their salaries and that management is there to rip people off. I get it for warehouse people, but for tech workers, come on.
    - salawat 3y ago
      >Well, most people took the job as a being-in-the-office job (before the work from home took off). Which means you took the job + commute for that salary. If you then suddenly don't have to go to the office it's not such a stretch to think you could/should be paid less. That does not follow. I quote you a salary sufficient to warrant me to work for you. You don't get to come back and demand that you should be able to pay me less when I no longer commute when I'm still working for you. Unless the physical presence in the office is absolutely essential (which it isn't for knowledge workers in the way it is for a stocker or laborer), and the tech exists where working remote is a reasonable accommodation (which it does), then you wanting me in the office to get the job done is now something on the table for me (the employee) to charge you, the employer extra for. In no way are you, (the employer) entitled to an extra discount because I'm not driving in. Nevermind that I don't offer one of those. Though I may to have to ruminate on it. >It's funny how people feel so entitled to their salaries and that management is there to rip people off. It's funny how companies feel entitled to their profits and that employees are there to rip them off. A) People are free to set the price of their time. B) Management is explicitly there to get the absolute most out of workers with the least input. Even if that means playing dirty, (hopefully not, but I've seen a lot of it). You can say their purpose is leadership, but I've been privy to what high level management types think leadership is, and unfortunately, it ain't leadership. I know leadership. Come from a family with a lot of military background. Civillian business management theory abandoned most facets of leadership in order to cut corners, and maximize value generation. Just look at the C-Suite-to-everyone else pay disparity to see the fruits of that.

Gigachad 3y ago

> Think of how much time is stolen from you in a daily commute Not that much. And I just read hacker news while sitting on the train which I was going to do if sitting at home anyway.

WeylandYutani 3y ago
A train that has seats left in rush hour? I envy you.
- Gigachad 3y ago
  I either leave slightly earlier and beat rush hour, or even if I don’t, I can still use my phone standing.
  - dunefox 3y ago
    Wow, that sounds fantastic! \s
this15testing1 3y ago
oh right, gigchad speaks for all people on earth who obviously have the same commute and transport options
- DiggyJohnson 3y ago
  They never implied that. Your insult is completely out of place.
khuedoan 3y ago
Only if you live in a country with decent public transportation. The rest of the world still have to deal with traffic jam and polluted air while commuting (cars are difficult to get in many countries).
- alophawen 3y ago
  > Only if you live in a country with decent public transportation So only in every country in the world except USA?
  - rgrieselhuber 3y ago
    Not if you count rural areas. In Japan for example, commuting every day in many areas still requires a car or long train rides. And the sardine-packed trains at rush hours in the cities are literally soul-sucking.
  - BlargMcLarg 3y ago
    Only Japan would remotely apply unless you're cheating the system by checking only hotspot cities and trying to claim they are the entirety of their country. Suffice to say, most people don't live near Amsterdam, let alone able to afford it.
  - john_the_writer 3y ago
    Or Sydney-Australia where if you're super lucky you're not standing squished on a train, or bouncing on a bus with 3 times as many people as seats.
hdjjhhvvhga 3y ago
>> Think of how much time is stolen from you in a daily commute > Not that much. OK, let's assume it's not 90 minutes but only 20 minutes a day. That compounds, and it's a lot of time I could spend on what really matters to me, not work. Why should I do it, if I have a choice? Time is the most precious thing we have. I will never come back to the office, period.
- Gigachad 3y ago
  It’s 20 minutes where I catch up on the news get a bit of walking in from the home to the train station and generally wake up to arrive at the office ready to go.
  - john_the_writer 3y ago
    ha 20 minutes. Some days I waited for the bus longer than that. I waited because in Sydney the bus is on-time about 15% of the time. If you miss it, you wait an extra hour. Not sure where you live, that's got a 20 min commute, but most people either live in a concrete prison to reduce the commute, or spend 2 hours a day on a bus/train. I do know this.. if you worked from home, you could get all that you've outlined, and likely spend a pile less on rent/mortgage. Others who work with you would also get to see their kids before bed.
    - Gigachad 3y ago
      Sydney sucks. I’m in Melbourne and the train leaves every 5 minutes, takes me about 20 minutes to get to the cbd about 7km away. Rent is pretty affordable too.
      - smugma 3y ago
        25 min (maybe 30-40 if you include walking to and from station?) for 7km? Seems like a bike or eBike would be a faster way to go? Melbourne climate is pretty temperate, no?
        3y ago

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

It is, but companies are too stubborn.

Sparkyte 3y ago
It all comes down to hiring the right people. The problem with remote is many companies hire the wrong people so they end up not doing the right thing. Then all of the people who are good get punished.
- nikau 3y ago
  Its also lazy management. Remote work used to be an earned privilege for workers who were self sufficient and didn't need any management. Now everyone expects it, and lazy/weak managers will just make everyone come into the office vs having hard conversations with crap employees to tell them they cant work from home.
  - isilofi 3y ago
    > Remote work used to be an earned privilege for workers who were self sufficient and didn't need any management. I'm coordinating with developers in Europe, South America and East Asia. The customers are all over, but mainly North American. I'm in Europe. I've seen some of the customers once or twice in person, I see many of my European colleagues at the yearly get-together. But all the contact and all the work is over email, phone and video conferences and the usual mix of other remote collaboration tools, ticket system, git, stuff like that. When I enter our local office, only one of the 50 people working there has anything to do with that I do. My manager is 800km away. Well, there's payroll over here, but the only time I'll need to "visit" them in person is when a paycheck is late ;). Even before COVID, the world shifted towards remote, even when you HAD to come to the local office because of reasons. COVID just showed everyone what a charade it already has been for the last decade to force people into an office just to get on phone/email/git and work remotely from the office. COVID cut out the stupid useless "going to the office" step. In the 2000s, it wasn't like that, teams were concentrated at some offices, offshoring wasn't that much of a thing yet. And for lots of things, travelling e.g. to meet a customer was accepted and normal, far more often than it is now. A new contract was a 2-week stay at the customers'. Back then, remote work actually was a privilege. But the world had changed long before COVID, slowly, then very quickly.

rjh29 3y ago

Idk I loved my hour of walking every day. My mental health tanked when I became full remote.

glenjamin 3y ago
Have you considered going for a walk?
lpapez 3y ago
You can walk even without going to work fyi.
- rjh29 3y ago
  I did, but the enforced boundary between work and home is very important to me.
  - john_the_writer 3y ago
    You can enforce that boundary with a walk before and after work. Wake, coffee, walk, start work at 9. Finish at 5, put computer away, and walk for 15 min, your day is done.
    - rjh29 3y ago
      I really wish I could be that organised.
      - frumper 3y ago
        It sounds like if you’re not WFH you are that organized. You can do it.
    - vaccarium 3y ago
      No. Just, no. It's really arrogant how you assume you understand GP's situation better than themselves.
3y ago

flakeoil 3y ago

Stolen? You were paid for and took the job you knew was a certain distance and commute away from your home. I believe employees have to start to get used to being paid less when working remote. People who work in an office or factory have to be rewarded for this commute. Some jobs cannot be made remote. I assume a lot of people working remote also like the fact that they can do the laundry, clean the house, do some errands etc during the working day. This flexibility should also allow the salary for remote workers to be lower than for people working in an office.

salawat 3y ago
>People who work in an office or factory have to be rewarded for this commute. Last I checked, no one paid me" for my commute time or comp'd the wear on my vehicle. If those hours* spent in traffic should have been counted on the clock, then golly gee, I have invoices yo get written! Seriously, I get it. There should be something for it, but there never will be. Wage theft. Management will do anything possible to get unpaid time out of you.
- flakeoil 3y ago
  Well, most people took the job as a being-in-the-office job (before the work from home took off). Which means you took the job + commute for that salary. If you then suddenly don't have to go to the office it's not such a stretch to think you could/should be paid less. As it's probably easier to hire someone to work remote than hire someone who has to go to the office, the salaries will probably over time be less for work from home jobs anyway (for the same type of job). It's funny how people feel so entitled to their salaries and that management is there to rip people off. I get it for warehouse people, but for tech workers, come on.
  - salawat 3y ago
    >Well, most people took the job as a being-in-the-office job (before the work from home took off). Which means you took the job + commute for that salary. If you then suddenly don't have to go to the office it's not such a stretch to think you could/should be paid less. That does not follow. I quote you a salary sufficient to warrant me to work for you. You don't get to come back and demand that you should be able to pay me less when I no longer commute when I'm still working for you. Unless the physical presence in the office is absolutely essential (which it isn't for knowledge workers in the way it is for a stocker or laborer), and the tech exists where working remote is a reasonable accommodation (which it does), then you wanting me in the office to get the job done is now something on the table for me (the employee) to charge you, the employer extra for. In no way are you, (the employer) entitled to an extra discount because I'm not driving in. Nevermind that I don't offer one of those. Though I may to have to ruminate on it. >It's funny how people feel so entitled to their salaries and that management is there to rip people off. It's funny how companies feel entitled to their profits and that employees are there to rip them off. A) People are free to set the price of their time. B) Management is explicitly there to get the absolute most out of workers with the least input. Even if that means playing dirty, (hopefully not, but I've seen a lot of it). You can say their purpose is leadership, but I've been privy to what high level management types think leadership is, and unfortunately, it ain't leadership. I know leadership. Come from a family with a lot of military background. Civillian business management theory abandoned most facets of leadership in order to cut corners, and maximize value generation. Just look at the C-Suite-to-everyone else pay disparity to see the fruits of that.