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You can have people with Psoriatic Arthritis creating legions on their skin. You give them an immune suppressant and the legions go away. Please explain to me y

You can have people with Psoriatic Arthritis creating legions on their skin. You give them an immune suppressant and the legions go away. Please explain to me your alternative hypothesis for this mode of action.

dnfjficiv 3y ago
[dead]
alfor 3y ago
Our immune system is dysfunctioning because of something (not natural occurrence) What is that something? - vaccines - toxins, pesticides? - lack of vitamin D, infrared? Something else? Our modern medicine (pharma companies) are succeeding at making us chronically sick as that is what is more lucrative, it’s literally the matrix, we are serving the machine, not the other way around. Whatever is causing immune problems is at the same time creating a lot of shareholder value.
- onethought 3y ago
  But we spot these diseases the world over, not just in the US where it is lucrative. A lot of countries this medication is purchased and bargained for at the government level and then provided to individuals for low cost/no cost (outside of tax). It’s also assessed at the total population level. So I don’t know how you could convince a country (say) to buy something that makes them ill then sell them the cure. They have the efficacy data of both things. Or are you suggesting that it is a cross industry collision, like shampoo that create diabetes, and then they sell us diabetes cures?
- Calavar 3y ago
  > Our immune system is dysfunctioning because of something (not natural occurrence) So, an autoimmune disease? Because that falls within the parameters of what you've described. > What is that something? - vaccines - toxins, pesticides? - lack of vitamin D, infrared? Something else? The question of why autoimmune diseases are becoming more common is good one. There is research that shows correlations between the incidence of autoimmune disease and vitamin D deficiency and exposure to microplastics. But as of now, these are just correlations. Causality has not been established, and there are a lot of missing links left on that road. > Whatever is causing immune problems is at the same time creating a lot of shareholder value. You give way too much credit to big pharma. 1. We don't know enough about autoimmune disease to know how to intentionally cause it. 2. As with many conspiracy theories, this one relies on the very improbable occurrence of tens of thousands of people keeping mum over multiple decades and not a single one of them growing a conscience at any point. Or just leaking something out of incompetence at any point.
  - alfor 3y ago
    You are right, It think it’s mostly caused by the change of our environment: screens, less time outside, food getting industrialized, etc. On the side of pharma it’s mostly: work on what is lucrative, don’t kill the golden goose (fix the problem) They have a huge incentives to keep the problems going and create a subscription model to alleviate the symptoms, not surprising, that exactly what they do.
    - DubiousPusher 3y ago
      If inverse vaccines work, they will end the most lucrative drugs in the history of medicine. Humira the OG biologic treatment for autoimmune conditions costs $5,000/month. There has been a gold rush by pharmaceutical companies to create humira-like drugs or new monoclonal antibodies. Enbrel, Simponi, Taltz, Rinvoq and on. They all cost thousands of dollars per month and must be taken for life. Immune suppresant biologics has been one of the biggest profit growth areas for pharma over the last 20 years. They are all chasing it. These inverse vaccines would end that.
  - DoreenMichele 3y ago
    You don't need to know how to intentionally cause it to come up with solutions that help keep it alive. All you need is a profit motive that helps keep your eye on profiting from ongoing treatment and helps you parrot the party line that "It's incurable." See also The Shirky Principle: Organizations tend to keep alive the problem they are intended to address.
    - DubiousPusher 3y ago
      This article is literally about a permeant or semi-permenant cure for diseases which are currently treated with drugs costing as much as tens of thousands of dollars per month. The profit motive would be not to bring inverse vaccines to market.
      - DoreenMichele 3y ago
        That doesn't somehow rebut my point. No industry is ever a monolith.
- Telemakhos 3y ago
  Vitamin D deficiency is linked to autoimmune disorders, but through a larger mechanism. As I (a layman, not a doctor) understand it, the autoimmune disorder phenomenon is now thought to be the result of two things: a) DNA from viral infections in previous generations (HERV, Human Endogenous Retro-Viruses), and b) infection with a similar virus. The HERV gives autoimmune diseases a genetic component, which is why not everyone gets them, and the infection with a similar virus (like Epstein-Barr for multiple sclerosis) triggers the body to start attacking itself because it finds the HERV. Vitamin D can help suppress the expression of HERV, so vitamin D deficiency can contribute to the problem—but it's not the root of the problem. https://www.imrpress.com/journal/JIN/20/1/10.31083/j.jin.2021.01.392/htm https://www.imrpress.com/journal/JIN/20/1/10.31083/j.jin.202...
  - DoreenMichele 3y ago
    So you have listed three potential explanations: 1. Vitamin D deficiency. 2. Genetic disorder 3. Viral infection All of which are specific causes that are potentially treatable and do not fit with "the immune system has lost its mind and is randomly attacking healthy tissue."
    - IIsi50MHz 3y ago
      Let me try to fill in. Prior infection with something can leave behind genetic changes (which can also be passed to offspring, even across many generations). The changes may or may not cause a disorder. Subsequent infection by a similar agent may cause the immune system to "learn" aspects of that agent. This can then cause the immune system to identify similar aspects of host cells, and mount a response to the perceived threat. Relatedly, allergies are also a class of immune disorder based on misidentification. For instance, toxicodendron plants like "poison ivy" produce a harmless substance that is capable of chemically bonding to human cell membranes, which does not seem to impair the primary function of the cell, but does alter its ability to respond correctly when "interrogated" by relevant T-cells. These T-cells are immune cells which can be described as drifting through the body, randomly attaching to other cells, and then asking those cells to authenticate. The response from an affected cell is malformed, causing the T-cell to release a chemical signal which is like say "Kill everything here!". This causes other immune cells which enter the area to commence destroying friend and foe alike. More immune cells will continue to be recruited for as long as the 'kill' signal lasts. The signal will continue to be produced each time another cell fails to authenticate.
- DubiousPusher 3y ago
  Why is the person who treats most autoimmune diseases called a rheumatologist? Because the people who documented and categorized these diseases in Western medicine were believers in Humorism. That is a belief that human ailments stem from the imbalance of the four humors (blood, green bile, black bile and phlegm). They believed the inflammation in these disorders was the product of a phlegm imbalance, specifically of the mucus rheum. Hence the field name of Rheumatology. The name dates back to the 17th century. My history is a little shaky, but as far as I can recall, the 17th century was before pharmaceuticals, pesticides and the entire industrial revolution. But maybe I need to get on that Gary Kasperov history where the Roman Empire fell in like 1940 or whatever.
dredmorbius 3y ago
I suspect you meant lesions rather than legions?
- DubiousPusher 3y ago
  Yes, Swype keyboard fail.

dnfjficiv 3y ago

[dead]

alfor 3y ago

Our immune system is dysfunctioning because of something (not natural occurrence) What is that something? - vaccines - toxins, pesticides? - lack of vitamin D, infrared? Something else? Our modern medicine (pharma companies) are succeeding at making us chronically sick as that is what is more lucrative, it’s literally the matrix, we are serving the machine, not the other way around. Whatever is causing immune problems is at the same time creating a lot of shareholder value.

onethought 3y ago
But we spot these diseases the world over, not just in the US where it is lucrative. A lot of countries this medication is purchased and bargained for at the government level and then provided to individuals for low cost/no cost (outside of tax). It’s also assessed at the total population level. So I don’t know how you could convince a country (say) to buy something that makes them ill then sell them the cure. They have the efficacy data of both things. Or are you suggesting that it is a cross industry collision, like shampoo that create diabetes, and then they sell us diabetes cures?
Calavar 3y ago
> Our immune system is dysfunctioning because of something (not natural occurrence) So, an autoimmune disease? Because that falls within the parameters of what you've described. > What is that something? - vaccines - toxins, pesticides? - lack of vitamin D, infrared? Something else? The question of why autoimmune diseases are becoming more common is good one. There is research that shows correlations between the incidence of autoimmune disease and vitamin D deficiency and exposure to microplastics. But as of now, these are just correlations. Causality has not been established, and there are a lot of missing links left on that road. > Whatever is causing immune problems is at the same time creating a lot of shareholder value. You give way too much credit to big pharma. 1. We don't know enough about autoimmune disease to know how to intentionally cause it. 2. As with many conspiracy theories, this one relies on the very improbable occurrence of tens of thousands of people keeping mum over multiple decades and not a single one of them growing a conscience at any point. Or just leaking something out of incompetence at any point.
- alfor 3y ago
  You are right, It think it’s mostly caused by the change of our environment: screens, less time outside, food getting industrialized, etc. On the side of pharma it’s mostly: work on what is lucrative, don’t kill the golden goose (fix the problem) They have a huge incentives to keep the problems going and create a subscription model to alleviate the symptoms, not surprising, that exactly what they do.
  - DubiousPusher 3y ago
    If inverse vaccines work, they will end the most lucrative drugs in the history of medicine. Humira the OG biologic treatment for autoimmune conditions costs $5,000/month. There has been a gold rush by pharmaceutical companies to create humira-like drugs or new monoclonal antibodies. Enbrel, Simponi, Taltz, Rinvoq and on. They all cost thousands of dollars per month and must be taken for life. Immune suppresant biologics has been one of the biggest profit growth areas for pharma over the last 20 years. They are all chasing it. These inverse vaccines would end that.
- DoreenMichele 3y ago
  You don't need to know how to intentionally cause it to come up with solutions that help keep it alive. All you need is a profit motive that helps keep your eye on profiting from ongoing treatment and helps you parrot the party line that "It's incurable." See also The Shirky Principle: Organizations tend to keep alive the problem they are intended to address.
  - DubiousPusher 3y ago
    This article is literally about a permeant or semi-permenant cure for diseases which are currently treated with drugs costing as much as tens of thousands of dollars per month. The profit motive would be not to bring inverse vaccines to market.
    - DoreenMichele 3y ago
      That doesn't somehow rebut my point. No industry is ever a monolith.
Telemakhos 3y ago
Vitamin D deficiency is linked to autoimmune disorders, but through a larger mechanism. As I (a layman, not a doctor) understand it, the autoimmune disorder phenomenon is now thought to be the result of two things: a) DNA from viral infections in previous generations (HERV, Human Endogenous Retro-Viruses), and b) infection with a similar virus. The HERV gives autoimmune diseases a genetic component, which is why not everyone gets them, and the infection with a similar virus (like Epstein-Barr for multiple sclerosis) triggers the body to start attacking itself because it finds the HERV. Vitamin D can help suppress the expression of HERV, so vitamin D deficiency can contribute to the problem—but it's not the root of the problem. https://www.imrpress.com/journal/JIN/20/1/10.31083/j.jin.2021.01.392/htm https://www.imrpress.com/journal/JIN/20/1/10.31083/j.jin.202...
- DoreenMichele 3y ago
  So you have listed three potential explanations: 1. Vitamin D deficiency. 2. Genetic disorder 3. Viral infection All of which are specific causes that are potentially treatable and do not fit with "the immune system has lost its mind and is randomly attacking healthy tissue."
  - IIsi50MHz 3y ago
    Let me try to fill in. Prior infection with something can leave behind genetic changes (which can also be passed to offspring, even across many generations). The changes may or may not cause a disorder. Subsequent infection by a similar agent may cause the immune system to "learn" aspects of that agent. This can then cause the immune system to identify similar aspects of host cells, and mount a response to the perceived threat. Relatedly, allergies are also a class of immune disorder based on misidentification. For instance, toxicodendron plants like "poison ivy" produce a harmless substance that is capable of chemically bonding to human cell membranes, which does not seem to impair the primary function of the cell, but does alter its ability to respond correctly when "interrogated" by relevant T-cells. These T-cells are immune cells which can be described as drifting through the body, randomly attaching to other cells, and then asking those cells to authenticate. The response from an affected cell is malformed, causing the T-cell to release a chemical signal which is like say "Kill everything here!". This causes other immune cells which enter the area to commence destroying friend and foe alike. More immune cells will continue to be recruited for as long as the 'kill' signal lasts. The signal will continue to be produced each time another cell fails to authenticate.
DubiousPusher 3y ago
Why is the person who treats most autoimmune diseases called a rheumatologist? Because the people who documented and categorized these diseases in Western medicine were believers in Humorism. That is a belief that human ailments stem from the imbalance of the four humors (blood, green bile, black bile and phlegm). They believed the inflammation in these disorders was the product of a phlegm imbalance, specifically of the mucus rheum. Hence the field name of Rheumatology. The name dates back to the 17th century. My history is a little shaky, but as far as I can recall, the 17th century was before pharmaceuticals, pesticides and the entire industrial revolution. But maybe I need to get on that Gary Kasperov history where the Roman Empire fell in like 1940 or whatever.

dredmorbius 3y ago

I suspect you meant lesions rather than legions?

DubiousPusher 3y ago
Yes, Swype keyboard fail.