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There's a subset of the anti-EV crowd that's against EVs not because they're brodozer drivers, but because they realize individual vehicle ownership is the othe

by Tanoc 3y ago

There's a subset of the anti-EV crowd that's against EVs not because they're brodozer drivers, but because they realize individual vehicle ownership is the other half of the problem. EVs still cost resources that are harmful to harvest outsized relative to their use thanks to strip mining and the chemical process used to separate cobalt from manganese at a mass scale. Those people, myself included, believe that mass transit needs to make a resurgence instead of everyone switching to EVs. I even get annoyed seeing EV "bicycles" that weigh as much as the riders and cost as much as a scooter because I think they're wastes of resources used to dodge taxes and pedestrian right of way laws regarding motorcycles.

psunavy03 3y ago
Individual vehicle ownership is not a "problem." The United States is not Europe, both from a cultural perspective and a geographical one. You can either propose unrealistic solutions like "push mass transit hard and increase density," or you can meet people where they are and realize America is a big, big country with a tradition of individual freedom. People don't necessarily want to live in a big city, go only where the buses and trains go, and never have the chance to go on road trips or vacations to the mountains or the beach. Better for the climate to do this via battery power and not fossil fuels, because it's going to happen.
gonzo41 3y ago
I'm very pro ebike. But some American classes of ebikes are just electric motorcycles with a set of crank arms for show. Pedelec bikes are ebikes. Everything else is with a throttle is a scooter Cycling has more benefits than replacing cars. It connects us with joyful movement. And the infrastructure is cheaper to build and extend compared to railways.
- aaomidi 3y ago
  I wish instead of the subsidies we shat out for EVs, we did them for ebikes instead.
- ferongr 3y ago
  >It connects us with joyful movement This means nothing.
  - marssaxman 3y ago
    It meant something to me; I could certainly say that I felt connected with joyful movement when I test-rode an ebike last week. My partner and I were all smiles afterward.
- Tanoc 3y ago
  I'm not against bicycles and electric bikes. I'm against "not" electric motorcycles. If your e-bike goes beyond 20MPH under power and goes beyond twenty miles in range then the primary mode of locomotion isn't supposed to be the pedals. The pedals at that point are a backup, like a reverse moped. Ideally we'd return back to the 1890s-1910s with public transport consisting of fixed line trolleys or light rail covering distances larger than five or six blocks while walking or bicycling covers distances less than that. That's where EV technology would be ideal because you could run a combination of overhead, third rail, and battery power depending on available infrastructure and space, all using the same cars city or town wide.
Tade0 3y ago
> and the chemical process used to separate cobalt from manganese at a mass scale Cobalt isn't necessary to build li-ion batteries, considering that there are mainstream chemistries like LFP which eschew cobalt entirely.

by Tanoc 3y ago

psunavy03 3y ago

Individual vehicle ownership is not a "problem." The United States is not Europe, both from a cultural perspective and a geographical one. You can either propose unrealistic solutions like "push mass transit hard and increase density," or you can meet people where they are and realize America is a big, big country with a tradition of individual freedom. People don't necessarily want to live in a big city, go only where the buses and trains go, and never have the chance to go on road trips or vacations to the mountains or the beach. Better for the climate to do this via battery power and not fossil fuels, because it's going to happen.

gonzo41 3y ago

I'm very pro ebike. But some American classes of ebikes are just electric motorcycles with a set of crank arms for show. Pedelec bikes are ebikes. Everything else is with a throttle is a scooter Cycling has more benefits than replacing cars. It connects us with joyful movement. And the infrastructure is cheaper to build and extend compared to railways.

aaomidi 3y ago
I wish instead of the subsidies we shat out for EVs, we did them for ebikes instead.
ferongr 3y ago
>It connects us with joyful movement This means nothing.
- marssaxman 3y ago
  It meant something to me; I could certainly say that I felt connected with joyful movement when I test-rode an ebike last week. My partner and I were all smiles afterward.
Tanoc 3y ago
I'm not against bicycles and electric bikes. I'm against "not" electric motorcycles. If your e-bike goes beyond 20MPH under power and goes beyond twenty miles in range then the primary mode of locomotion isn't supposed to be the pedals. The pedals at that point are a backup, like a reverse moped. Ideally we'd return back to the 1890s-1910s with public transport consisting of fixed line trolleys or light rail covering distances larger than five or six blocks while walking or bicycling covers distances less than that. That's where EV technology would be ideal because you could run a combination of overhead, third rail, and battery power depending on available infrastructure and space, all using the same cars city or town wide.

Tade0 3y ago

> and the chemical process used to separate cobalt from manganese at a mass scale Cobalt isn't necessary to build li-ion batteries, considering that there are mainstream chemistries like LFP which eschew cobalt entirely.